Why Success Means Nothing Without Your Team—Harshana Gange

In this episode of The Quest for Success Podcast, we delve into the evolving concept of success with Dr. Harshana Gange, a distinguished geriatrician whose inspiring journey spans continents. Dr. Gange shares how his view of success has transformed from the pursuit of material wealth to a focus on finding true happiness and empowering others to achieve their goals.

Listen as Harshana reflects on the profound influence of his family during his childhood and how their values shaped his path. He recounts his challenging journey from Sri Lanka to the UK, where he rebuilt his life and pursued a career in geriatric medicine, inspired by a mentor whose compassion and dedication left a lasting impact.

Discover how Dr. Gange’s decision to move to Australia in 2011 led to the establishment of a thriving geriatric and stroke service in Toowoomba. Through his leadership and commitment to teamwork, he has not only built a successful department with multiple subspecialties but also played a pivotal role in training and supporting numerous doctors in their careers.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in personal growth, leadership, or the medical field. Tune in to gain valuable insights into how Dr. Harshana Gange has redefined success through humility, selflessness, and the power of strong teams.

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Transcript

Dylan Pathirana (00:00.278)
My life changed actually during those six years because now I feel the success is to me. Haven't you heard the news though? said no. Well, he died.

go and click that subscribe or follow button. It means we can grow the show, which means we can get bigger and better guests on for you guys. And with that, back to the episode.

Dylan Pathirana (00:54.37)
Welcome back to the Quest for Success podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode. Today we are really excited because we have my uncle Jam's brother -in -law and we're at their home in the beautiful Toowoomba in Queensland. We've just...

finished a party and we've sat down to have a good conversation and so we're really looking forward to today's episode. And you might hear me refer to him as Mami throughout the episode and that in Sri Lanka means uncle. So forgive me if you hear that throughout the conversation. So Mami, thanks for joining us. Thank you Dylan. Thanks for inviting me and thank you Jayam. Nice to have you Harshana. So I mean, this is a special, very, very special discussion, I guess, you know, we never had this chance to sit down

and have this conversation before even you married my sister for how many years now? 25 years? Nearly years. Yeah, 25 now. So we just, I guess it's a conversation. We've gone through this journey for, this is our 18th episode that we are doing. So it's interesting to have you and just to share your thoughts and your experience with us.

Thank you for your time. Completely, completely different perspective. so for those who don't know, Hashina is a, a, doctor and he specializes in geriatrics, right? Yes. and so it's a very different perspective to a lot of the entrepreneurs that we've had on, but he's also an entrepreneur in his own right. we'll talk through all of these things in our discussion today, but I want to start.

on the main topic of this, this podcast, which is success. And I want to begin the conversation by asking what does success mean to you? Well, Dylan, it's a very difficult question. in a way it's a simple question. Success for most of them would feel that been, achieving whatever you wanted as a kid. Yeah. And, when I was a kid, I looked at success as.

Dylan Pathirana (03:06.454)
someone who would be rich and who would not need to ask dad of what you need and you could buy anything by yourself. And also success meant you could go to any country without needing to think about it. But as I grew older, my definition of success changed and looking back,

the success what I thought success is different to what I think success is now and the way I perceive it. Now I feel the success is like, again, success obviously mean being comfortable financially is a success and I think to do lots of things you need to be stabilized. I'm not saying super rich, but comfortable. But my success I feel

the success at this point of time is to bring your team along with you and get them into the places and opening up the doors for your team and the people who are close to you and get them happy as well. The happiness is what I feel is a success now. And that happiness not necessarily financial. That happiness is seeing your closest one achieving what they want to achieve.

and your children being happy again and also providing. And when I go to sleep and if I felt that I've done something right for some of the people or even one or two things I have done, and that is success for me. And so it's difficult to define, but I think success comes with happiness and sometimes.

We think what are, what is successful for most of the time does not at the end bring in happiness. So that's a broad sense of success to me. I think that's something that we've heard a lot of people say, you know, it's something that changes a lot throughout your lifetime. And as you age, you start to realize that it's less about the material things and more about the people that you go on this journey with and helping other people around you.

Dylan Pathirana (05:32.27)
It's almost like as you age, you look back and want to help the others who were in your situation and kind of bring everyone up with you. I like that you said that. Yeah, that's interesting. You explained that your success that you see, not just you achieving something great, you achieving together. Absolutely. Yeah, that's exactly because that group of people that's close to you,

will help you to get to where you need to. So it's absolutely paramount that we look after them as well. It's no use. You just get into the top of the Everest when your team is at the bottom and that's not success. Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned early about how you thought when you were younger, success was, your, your dad not having to buy you stuff. I want to go back to that point.

Can you take us through some of your, your early days, where you grew up, what your childhood was like and how you think your childhood shaped who you are today? yeah, Dylan, that's a long time ago. So I'm 53 now. And, so I was born in a, in a part of southern part of Sri Lanka in a town called Gaul. And it's a, it's a main city in southern part.

And I was fortunate enough to be, my parents were well -educated and my dad was a lawyer and my mom was a well -respected teacher in the region. And I would probably say, I wouldn't say, I would probably be happy to say that I had a very comfortable life as a child. My parents were comfortable enough, again, not super rich, but we were comfortable enough to provide

us a good education. And in my family, as you know, unlike here in Australia, where you have lots of opportunities, whatever field we use, we go through, we get opportunities. And there in Sri Lanka, you need to have a good education if you were to be in Sri Lanka to get out of, unless you choose to do a business which only opportunities are for near little.

Dylan Pathirana (07:58.246)
a small amount of people, but for most to get a good future, you need to have a good education. And my mom made sure that I have a brother and a sister, and all three of us get the best education. And my dad was the one who provided us all the financial support for that, but they worked very well together. And while dad was providing the finances, mom...

made us, made sure that we had the education. And that was my first couple of years. And if you want me to continue, so I, in year five, I had a scholarship and which I got through and then went to a leading school in Colombo, Royal College. And then from there, I had to, that was a difficult time for me. I was with my mom and dad.

suddenly had to come to a new school, get used to the new environment. And in my local school, I was very comfortable, but here it's a very competitive environment. But somehow I managed to get through the first few years, which I then got comfortable with. And during that time, I was with my uncle's place. But again, he looked after me very well with his family.

And, and I had all of us, which I did fairly well in, achieving good, good scores. then in their levels, after getting through to the university, Colombo medical school, and then I graduated as a doctor. Yeah. And you, you mentioned that you felt very comfortable and you feel like you had a really.

safe and good upbringing. I want to get your perspective. And do you feel like you had a responsibility to achieve something, given your upbringing? Yes. It's funny you asked that question. And in my family, within the first cousins and my uncles, we have 21 doctors.

Dylan Pathirana (10:23.854)
and 21 doctors and nine lawyers. And there were a number of engineers and a few successful businessmen as well. I was among the cousins, I was in the bottom one third of when you age wise, we were the younger guys. And all our cousins, younger cousins have entered med schools, engineering schools, law school, or doing business. So you had a

you will be pressurized because you look up to your cousins. But having said that, my mom and dad never said you have to be. What they said was you get the best education and you choose. And they never pressurized me to do this and that. But sometimes that's why I feel the childhood is really useful. you have these role models. You look at them and then you think you might, if they have achieved it.

I will also give it a good try. You mentioned role models. Do you have anyone that you look up to? Yeah, had my... Basically when we were young, our uncles were the ones that we looked up to. And I have a number of role models when I became a doctor and then I got here. But when we were at school...

The main role models were our teachers to start off with. And I had number of teachers that helped me to get to us here. And then the cousins who have been, or the uncles who have also achieved education, we have gone to a stage and we saw how they were comfortable and then looked after. So we also wanted to get to there so that we also be able to.

And some of I can, I remember one specifically one of my uncles, I thought I will never get out of Sri Lanka those days because getting into airplane was a, it was a dream as a kid. All the closest I got was about 200 meters to a airplane until I was age of 28. And that was the first time I got to, my first flight was when I was at the age of 28. So until then,

Dylan Pathirana (12:48.628)
anyone who got into the airport and then flew frequently was one of my role models because I thought that's you that's where the success as I said at that time that's what I thought the success was. Yeah. Yes. What about your immediate family? Your parents? Do you think they were or your brother or sister? Absolutely. Yeah. My dad was he was as I said he was a lawyer but he was a very family man and and

In a way, it's good and bad because he did not have much friends. And his friends and everything was his family. And he'd go to work, he'd come back, and he was with us, family. He would take us to trips. But I fell for him because towards his last part of when we moved away, I felt that he was a bit isolated because all he had was mom and my sister who was in Sri Lanka, and then when we were there, go back.

But then, having said that, he enjoyed that. Yeah. And so we looked up to my dad because we felt that he gave us, he was so close to us whenever we needed him. Again, my mom, she would get up, she would get up four o 'clock to wake up. said, 432. Sorry, she was our alarm clock. And basically we didn't have an alarm clock. She was my alarm clock. She made us to study and provided all those guidance that we wanted.

And so basically when I went to year seven, starting the grade year seven, I have finished all the year seven maths. She made sure that we had done maths and things like that. So I was one step ahead and thanks to her. she provided that. So my parents were our role models. And I also look up to my brother and sister.

And my brother achieved, he was very good at his cars and he was good at his sports and things like that. looked up to him and some of the things. He's a very good musician and a very good all rounder. So I could not, I still say that I haven't achieved what he achieved based on just not going in one direction. My sister is also the same. She was the brightest among three of us.

Dylan Pathirana (15:11.028)
and then also very talented in all sorts of... in music and things like that. So... Yeah. So would you say more than pressure, it's more... ...encourage that... Inspiration. Inspiration that you had from your family. Absolutely. I think that's a better word to use than the pressure and nobody pressured us, but when you see these role models, not too far away, just around your household.

and then at your cousin's place and your uncle's and they're all doing well. And you basically move with them and get inspirational. I'm kind of, I wish I could probably, not I wish it, and sometimes the story is colorful when you said I came from a very difficult childhood and things, but I can't say that, but I...

Lots of things that you can't get to a to be just having a comfortable life, childhood, I think I got all the support. can't complain at all. If I were to start again, I'll start again from where I had again. And it was, it was a happy, I would say happy childhood. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And was there any other jobs that you would have wanted to do? I always loved cars. Yeah. Yeah. So.

One of some of my colleagues say, if this man wasn't a doctor, he would have been a car salesman. Is there a difference? Yeah, some says that he will also sell fridges to Eskimos. But the cars were my... And if I wasn't a doctor, what would I have been? Well, I would have been with... I think the skills that I had...

Thinking back, I think I would have been a good accountant. And also, Jam, I like what you do. And I know that you work on your instincts and entrepreneurial background. And if I wasn't a doctor, I would probably, there are certain areas I wouldn't have gone, I wouldn't have done law.

Dylan Pathirana (17:31.946)
engineering might not have been my, I'm not good with hands and things, but when it comes to thinking and... I know, very cool. Yeah. creative. that's creativity. Accounting, money, or in a joyous way, cause if I'm still thinking I might retire for one or two years and then I don't have to work, I'll probably ask for a job in...

One of these car dealers, just volunteer. Yeah. Yeah. that's amazing. And you were talking about when you started high school, it was a bit of a big shock going to, to Royal away from home. Yeah. Do you think that time being outside of your comfort zone and being surrounded by people who were incredibly intelligent, you know, coming from a local area where things might've been a bit more.

easy for you. And then being in a big school where there's a lot of intelligent people. Do you think that shaped your trajectory? It is, yeah. think what the it was a nerve -wracking time. I still remember Royal College is a high society school and lots in Sri Lanka, English is our second language.

My parents could speak English very well, but we never spoke English at home. And even at school, I got good marks for English, but we never spoke English amongst us. So, but going to Royal, half of the now grade six class, think of maybe about 40, 60 % is newcomers, 40 % is where they have been from year one.

And those boys were very polished. And so they speak to each other in English. And I was dreaded that these guys will come to me and also speak in English as such. And I got used to it time. And also I remember I wanted to do music. wanted to play the flute and the violin. So violin and flute is actually oriental music.

Dylan Pathirana (19:53.094)
I had no idea what Oriental music and Western music is. and then suddenly they ask us which music you want to choose. And I thought violin at that time was Western music. So I chosen Western music. And then I was in the wrong class. I was too shy to say, can I go back? And I chose Western music and then I did Western music and I was horrible with that for eight years. But I was too shy to say. And so you are so shy sometimes to

do these things as such, but in a way that shaped you as you said, has it, how has that helped? That was the first time I had to adapt. Everything was just cruise control until then. And from there onwards, I knew that I can't go like this. You have to adjust. And I adjusted. And that was the first time I really had to make an effort to adjust, which helped me in subsequent moves. And that's cool move.

was I think a blessing in disguise. There's so many ways I had to adjust and which I thought with time I managed to do. Yeah. And so I want to go to the next kind of stage. You know, you were talking about how exciting it was for all the people getting on planes and leaving Sri Lanka. So I want to go to that phase of your life where you actually left Sri Lanka. Talk us through what was the reason why you left and where did you end up?

Yeah, this is we are again fast forwarding the last year six was my year 13, but now we are talking about age 31. during that period. And so I went to med school and I got through six years of med school is in Sri Lanka. We've done that. And but between the med school, I'll probably tell you this. You get through your.

final exam, year 12 exam, at the age of 19, you don't get to your uni in Sri Lanka until the age of 22 at that time. So there was a three year gap because there was so much of a backlog because of the war we had, number of civil wars we had, the universities were closed. I had to do, so I had to earn some money at that time.

Dylan Pathirana (22:17.518)
because you can't rely on your parents all the time. So I started tutoring. So I started tutoring and it was actually a very good money coming in. I earned money at the age of 20, more than when I became a doctor first year and about twice as much those days. And then went into uni and then did six years and then became a doctor. I'll probably

wouldn't be, if you were to say my first salary as the first year doctor was, it wasn't great. In Australian dollars, it's about, it's about, we got 3000 rupees. 3000 rupees was the first salary I got. Then I got 9 ,000 rupees. 9 ,000 rupees at that time was about,

About $900. $100 was the figure. then became a For the whole year? For a month. So for that $100, you will probably... Because I was used to, as I said, comfortable life with my parents, you would go to a movie and at that time I was married first year. We would go to a movie and have a meal and my salary is gone within about three, four days.

and you had to maintain a car. So we knew it within one or two years, you work hard. And that went up to about from, from about $100 to about $210 after about the second year. We still again, wasn't enough. So a few of our colleagues studied together and some of my colleagues were well top of my grade and they said, look.

this is not going to work for us. We either have to go somewhere, either to Australia or to the UK, and there are opportunities there. So we decided to take the exams to go to the UK, the part one we did. In 2001, just three months after the 9 -11, there was lots of problems to get the visa. We went to the UK.

Dylan Pathirana (24:39.438)
Before we talk about the UK and what you've done and your journey, you talking about tutoring, right? At one point, I remember you were telling, you were thinking of giving up on medicine and focus on tutoring. Absolutely, because again, when I went to uni, I said about $210. I was earning about 10 times.

six years ago before you went to the uni. That was only because I chose only a couple of hours a day. And I was really good at those days with physics. And so that's my subject was physics and chemistry. taught this to her. And some of my students actually now they've been very successful afterwards as such. And I would have probably been very successful in teaching. And if I were to go there, but again,

Going back, I think the right decision was to go to uni and get that education and take the next step because I wouldn't have done any uni work if I had chosen that. And I think it's good example. Sometimes you could probably have this skill, but if you were to get that qualifications in education, I think it's a good thing to have in the background. Then you can always go back to what you need to do. Well, you had an offer then, right, to...

continue with tutoring? Yes, yes. One of the very leading tutors at that time, Dr. Guerrero, Mahanlal Guerrero, he knew that I was tutoring. I went to same classes. Yeah, yeah, And he knew and he said that, well, you can join me if you need to and once. And I don't know if it was a joke or not, but I took it as serious, but I still thought going, getting to the university was the right thing. Yeah.

So let's go where you started, you know, going to UK. What was the journey? What did you do there? Yeah, so it was an interesting time going to the UK. So it was just after 9 -11. It wasn't a great time to have a few Asian 20 in the late 20s to get to UK. I remember the first journey wasn't the journey that I was dreaming.

Dylan Pathirana (27:04.546)
that when my uncles were flying and so many searches and suddenly we got there. And I had, there are seven of us, I had the most money, but Padmika, my wife, sister was with me. We were all married, but everyone was expecting, the wives were expecting children or they had children, but we didn't have a child at that time, so she's the only girl.

who came with us, but seven of us doctors and then Padmika. We went there and we had 3 ,000 dollars, that's 3 ,000 pounds, that's all we had to survive for six months while studying. When you think it's less, but the other guys had about 1 ,000, five to 2 ,000. Either you have to probably get further, more money from Sri Lanka or have to pass both exams and get a job.

So we were all seven of us was in a three bedroom, no, two bedroom flat. I got a bed because Padmika was there. Everyone else was sleeping on the floor. And I remember the first, we were asked to put these BT, the telecom books. And there was, we would get 20 pounds each for a day's work.

But, and then we were given 200 books too, but we didn't have any way of carrying these because we didn't have vehicles. what we did was we had our hand luggages, we put them in the hand luggage and we distributed these ones. And these were the doctors, we were treated like at the top level before we left Sri Lanka and suddenly we came from the top straight to the bottom.

and delivering books because we didn't have jobs and we need to have some money. And we used to go to a nearby supermarket at five o 'clock because we knew at five o 'clock there will be just expiring stuff that's coming out at a cheaper price. So we would get a bag of potatoes for about five pounds, which is about 12 otherwise.

Dylan Pathirana (29:25.358)
So we budgeted in such a way everyone puts in 20 pounds and so seven of us 150 pounds for the whole week of groceries and Padmika's job was to make sure that she gets once we give that she has to manage all that. And someone was saying that we were all getting very fair.

And we thought that we are good into England and everyone is getting fairer in the skin. Confection was getting, and actually, because we were eating so much of carrot, we were getting yellow. And that's what happened to us because carrot was cheap. I want to ask this question because I know in Sri Lanka, doctors are treated like gods.

And then anywhere in Asia, like, it's, it's, you know, the job to have. And so being doctors there, and then all of a sudden coming to the UK where look, doctors are respected, but it's not anything like Sri Lanka and having to kind of rebuild and start again. Was that a really humbling experience? It is. Yeah. I think, I think that that shaped our lives to be honest. And even now at this level, I look at the

the new doctors coming into, we call it IMGs, international medical graduates. When they come to hospitals, someone come into my unit will have a very, very easy life because I remember the hardships we went through. It's not just getting the first job, it's how you survive during that period of time. Could not understand the accent of, the UK accent for many.

And sometimes what you hear, you give a totally different answer. And the other person being polite, he would probably pretend that I gave the right answer as such. I remember seven of us put C .E .V .s to get jobs, and we only had one phone number. So all seven C .E .V .s had the same phone number. And it was my phone.

Dylan Pathirana (31:42.114)
So when I get a call and when somebody asks, is so and so, when it's not me from a hospital, I would say he's in the bathroom, he will get back to you. And I would wait until to say that you got a call and he would call like it is his phone. So everyone knows my phone number very well because it was their phone number as well until they got the first job. But that was a very good, you said it's a humbling situation and also that was the most hardest time, but looking back, that was the sweetest time as well.

And looking back, we all are doing reasonably well now. And whenever we get together, it's not the good times that we talk about. Because in a way, it was a good time, as you said. It's how it us. As I said, my childhood, I did not have to... I had a very crucial childhood. And then the university wasn't that bad. But coming to the UK, that first three months,

was really bad. And I knew that if I said this to my mother or my daddy, they would ask us to come back. So we never told them what was actually going through. He said, it's all good. It's fine. But it was a bloody difficult time for us. And and Paprika did a great job. all appreciate, still appreciate Sheikuk for seven guys who for nearly four months.

until you get through that period. It's like bonding through trauma. absolutely. So, Harshana, you went on in UK, you went to a prestige school, right? So tell us a little bit more. Yeah. The background. So in the UK, did my so we got through the first time that as the qualification and then I we I worked in a few hospitals and then.

you have to do the membership exam, Royal College of Membership and MRCP. That's just to practice in the UK? No, no, to practice in the UK you do the PLAP. You got the first job as an intern and that was a, so the salary, my first salary I still remember I got 1 ,900 pounds and which was a fantastic salary compared to what I, and so the first thing I did, believe it or not.

Dylan Pathirana (34:07.122)
is nothing about house, we got a car. You have to have a car first. So we got a car and then we looked at my first rental house. didn't have the rent to pay, so I got it from one of my friends and one of my elder doctors who's now in Queensland and he paid for my first rent. then, so during that period, first year was difficult, but then to qualify to

go further up, you need to decide whether you're going in the medical stream or surgical stream of Zangaini. So I decided to go in the medical stream and Royal College of Physicians have their higher education exams, MRCP part one, which we have already done when we were in Sri Lanka. So we have to do the other two parts, which I got through. And in 2004, I got selected for the

specialist registrar program in the Oxford Deanery. so Oxford, it's not very easy to get into Oxford Deanery and it's in the geriatrics. So I chose to do general medicine and geriatric medicine. It's a five year program there. And in that Deanery between 2004 to 2008. And at that time,

I was very comfortable with how the system was. again, difficult, was the UK as a doctor these days is not easy. It's hardworking, NHS is not in the best place. But if I were to train again, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the UK training system.

I can't talk about how it is now because I'm not there, but at the time we were there, was a fantastic training I got from the UK. Everything I do since then is that because of that, thanks to that training there. Any particular reason that you decided to go on that path, geriatric? Geriatric. See, saw the, it's funny you asked that question. Before I said I had several other jobs. One of those jobs was in a place called Cumbria in the UK, Whitehaven.

Dylan Pathirana (36:28.45)
Whitehaven is the second most run down town in the UK. Very low socioeconomic class, but fantastic for the doctor because you see lots of medical conditions as a result of it. And I had a local consultant there where I was working for six months, Dr. Karat, he was from India. And I was his...

senior house officer, said, Joe. And he was a locum doctor, often locum doctors. Some of them are good, but sometimes locum doctors could be just come here and just do the job. He wasn't one of them. Very kind to me, and he looked after patients fantastically well. And I had no idea, I always wanted to be a cardiologist. That was my aim, to do cardiology. But then looking at...

geriatrics was even not a specialty in Sri Lanka. So when we were training, geriatrics wasn't there. And this was my first training in geriatrics. And because of him, I thought if I could be like him. You asked me about the role models. When I was as a childhood, it was all about, but this was my first role model as a doctor, Dr. Karat. And he...

And that's how I thought I'll get it. What's special about him? What's special about him is the way that he... I thought geriatrics, as you know, is about elderly care medicine. So you tend to treat diseases about older people. Now, when you talk about that, most of that involves for geriatricians is dementia work, cognitive impairment, dementia.

Parkinson's stroke. And so often these are being perceived as things you can't do much. And so some of it is not what you call the highly selective subject as such. But the way that he treated and then people got still got better. And I thought, wow, even in this field, if you have the right attitude, you still can do lots of things. And that's how he became a, and that's how I.

Dylan Pathirana (38:53.09)
got into geriatric medicine. But when I got the job, the first person I wanted to say I got this geriatrics and I got to a, Oxford was Dr. Karat. So I gave him a call and he was still in there and then the secretary took the call. I said, can I speak to Dr. Karat?

Who are you? I said, I'm Dr. Ganga who was his SSJ. I know you, yes, you worked with us. Haven't you heard the news though? I said, no. Well, he went back to India because he was offered a permanent job here, but he wanted to do missionary work. And within a week of going there, he met with an accident and he died and instantly there. And the two children were...

They escaped, but he died. I was devastated. And I thought I one day I will go and work with him and he's not there anymore. so sad. Yeah, so that's how I got into Oxford. then during that period, I entered as a geriatrician. But how my life changed actually during those six years, because

In 2006, there were lots of funds came to the NHS to start, there wasn't good stroke care in the UK at that time. Patients with strokes would go to any specialty and they would stay without much care at all. So government funded a lot of money at that time to train physicians just in stroke care. So there was a specialty program.

you have to go out of your training program for additional year to get a fellowship in stroke. So I thought this is a good opportunity. And I put my hand up. There were five of us who was in the program. Others were not interested. They thought that most of them said, why would you waste another year? You won't become a specialist. But I stroke was something coming up good. And so I opted for that. So.

Dylan Pathirana (41:15.136)
I came out of the program with general medicine, geriatric medicine, and stroke medicine with three specialist training certificates, whereas usually you have two or one. But as soon as I came out, it was a requirement that if you were to work in a stroke unit, you need to have that qualification. that's how I got my first job in Norwich as a stroke.

physician afterwards. And then so you went to Norwich and started there. Yeah. What was the journey like from there? Yeah, that was my first consultant job in 2000 and end of 2008, 2009. Again, a totally different situation. Lots of responsibilities that I didn't think I would have. And

I'll probably break this into my clinical experience versus how I, the other things that come with that, including the finances. If you were to think of the clinical situations, the UK system is such that all systems are well refined at that time, even in stroke care. Geriatric medicine, was...

very fortunate to work with a senior clinician called Neil Metcalfe. And he was an Oxford trainee himself, number of years senior to me. He was departmental director there. And I was his buddy who's in the stroke unit, two of us worked. And it's a huge stroke unit with a thousand stroke patients per year coming in. There wasn't anything for me to develop in that.

because it's already been developed, but I learned all the tricks from him as to how things are being done. And I did most of the work, which, and at the same time, I learned a lot from Neil, who would probably, I knew how he would speak to people to get the money into the system and also to stand up for your team. And these leadership qualities that,

Dylan Pathirana (43:41.268)
I previously had heard from your courses. Books. That didn't mean much to me. But kind of demonstrate this guy demonstrate. Absolutely. And when you talk about the role model, that was my second role model. Because while at work, you get these people see how these things change and the reputation and the respect.

not only from me, from the rest that he believes was fantastic. And also at that time, UK had a system where you'd reward someone like person who has these novel ideas with their call extra awards as such is financially rewarding as well. And he would get every year he would get one after the other. And I would look up to him and think, wow, this guy is fantastic.

if I could even be half as good as he is at some point. But then again, there wasn't anything much for me to do because he's already done all that five steps ahead of me and quite deservedly, he's getting all these awards as such. So first year was quite exciting. Second year was okay. By the third year, I thought, wow, I've learned all this, but there's no chance I have.

to practice what I have learned because the systems are so much developed. Going back now, there were things that I could have done differently, but at that time, I thought, and then became a difficulty because Padmika also, had Sandali then, and she was about year four. She had to go to a private school and I had to pay my rent. And becoming a registrar to a concert, and you would think that you will probably earn much more. I actually had a pay cut.

going back, renowned. And because the consultant salary at that time wasn't much at all. And we were struggling to pay the rent and send Sandhulid to school at the same time, have a comfortable life and see our parents back in Sri Lanka and come back and to support them if they needed. That wasn't the case. So I was looking at other opportunities at that time. And is that the link there?

Dylan Pathirana (46:08.366)
of how you came to Australia? Absolutely. Yeah. So this was in 2011. And I was looking at where are the options are. And one of my colleagues had already applied for a job in Australia. I didn't know how to apply for. And he said, this is if you go through an agency. I, so I was looking for a job where I could do geriatric work and mainly stroke because you are now, I was in a stage where you have sub -specialized and your skills.

have narrowed down to stroke, not so much geriatrics. But I wanted a stroke job. But at the same time, I was told there is a place, they wouldn't tell you where the place is, most of the agencies, because then you will probably contact them directly as such. There's a place 140 kilometres west of Brisbane, and this place is not only looking for a stroke, but also looking for geriatrician. Are you okay with it?

they asked. I said, okay, yes, I'd like to try, but I would like to come and see the place first to see. And at the same time, I've got two other places, one north of Newcastle, a job, as well as in Canberra University Hospital. So I had three hospitals. So I thought I'll come and see. And coming here, there was no geriatrician. So in Toowoomba.

how the geriatric patients were managed was from a, we still have that cart in the hospital. There is a telehealth cart. have to, there's a nurse who would take the cart from one patient to another, and the specialist would be in Brisbane looking at that patient and giving advice, and a junior doctor will write that. So that's how Tumbo was managed with geriatrics for nearly eight, number of years.

This is not too far away in 2012, 2011, 2012. So they had got a pot of money to have their first geriatrician here. And then afterwards, they also had money for a stroke physician. So they were actually looking at two people. One, a neurologist to come and start a stroke service because in Australia, most of the stroke is managed by neurologists and at the same time wanted a geriatrician. But here I was with both

Dylan Pathirana (48:32.12)
qualifications and they said, can you kindly do both? And we would very much like to have you. I thought, then I thought, here I have a blank canvas. I could do whatever I want. Obviously with time, I will get the team to do this. I had a team of five, I was given five nurses to one junior doctor and a few.

Physio, OT. So my whole team was about 12, 13 with one junior and that's, I had to manage the stroke ward and the rehab ward. And then they said, you can come and see what you want to do and we'll support you if you want to do. I thought, fantastic. I learned all those tricks from Neil Metcalf and the rest of the team. And so this is chance. This is my chance. didn't think twice.

There was a substantial financial incentive as well for me to come from the UK to here. then, Jam, you were here as well. in Sydney, course. And there's family reasons and lots of reasons. It was a no brainer. should be here. And I suppose it was fulfilling that desire that you were missing in the UK, right? You just felt kind of, I'm not growing here.

the processes are already written. You're not, you weren't fulfilled there, but here, as you said, it's a blank canvas. You get to start fresh. You get to decide what you want to do. And so that's probably like one of the major reasons for it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and if you thought, if I were to ask you, there are a number of, very important points in my professional career, but I think that this was the biggest deal.

and the biggest break I had. so if you were to, if I were to take you through my first couple of years, it was quite interesting. So I had, I started with stroke and I had a nurse, as you said, and so that stroke unit gradually improved. But then the memory services, geriatric memory dementia work in the UK is done by old age.

Dylan Pathirana (50:58.658)
psychiatrists, they are not done by geriatricians. So I was a bit rusty with that part. And then the old age psychiatrist came and said, look, there wasn't a geriatrician. Now we have one. You have to take this over. I couldn't say, and I was a bit reluctant to say, well, I didn't have the best training for this and this has been done by others. I said, okay, I'll do it, but you have to support me for a month until we...

I get the processes. So I start this once a month clinic. But I thought this is the ideal chance to get another colleague to come in. So I was the only geriatrician here. whatever I thought, again from learn from the UK, I thought if I do this, if I start this, and if I collect the data and show it to the executives, that this is a service that you can't do without.

to proceed further.

you need funding for that obviously, but funding doesn't come just because you ask for that. You have to show them in a systematic manner why you need this funding. So in order to do that, data collection is the most important thing. So what we did was we started the clinic. I had to stretch a bit, but I still did that, but collected the data as to how many patients you would stop admitting as a result of this clinic.

So in about six months time, I had that data and went back and said, look, I can't do all three, but this is the data. You will probably save heaps of dollars if you actually invest on your second geriatrician. So they agreed to that and I had my second geriatrician in about seven months. Doing same, so I gave that memory service to that and then I moved to ortho -geriatrics, which is the perioperative geriatrics, which I had.

Dylan Pathirana (52:58.83)
training again while doing stroke, did that again for six months, showed them the data, this is what you are missing. And likewise, every one year, I added another colleague coming in and in. over the next six years, so it's 2012, doing that at the moment in 2024 in Toowoomba -based hospital, I have...

eight different subspecialties in geriatric medicine with seven geriatricians recruited from that process as such. And this is from a place where there was telehealth from a cart. And that cart was going to take away. I said, no, this has to stay here. There's a story behind this cart. And I'm on

everyone to see this story. So that cart is the most precious thing that we still have. So this is in the public, in the private I have, we have now, we established a private geriatric service and as a small practice with two geriatricians, including me. But we have five of five geriatricians, two of them full time and three of them part time with the base hospital. So we have in town nine geriatricians now.

And I'm humbly, I would probably be proud to say that I have been responsible for creating that service. Make an impact, real positive impact. Absolutely. I talked about what the success is. And some of these, some of the, most of these directitions are the trainees who are under me. And who would probably would struggle sometimes to go back to the city to get a job.

If I have not done that work and created those services for these doctors to get jobs and then they are very successful. of my trainees are even more successful than when I say successful, they have done really well clinically. And that's, I get more kick out of it than actually my own work when you see these guys are doing well.

Dylan Pathirana (55:22.454)
even when they have moved into a new house or something, you think you're part of that. And that's support that you, that's the success I feel as success is. And not even just the clinicians that you worked with, but being in a rural town like Toomba, do you ever think about the impact you've had on the people here as well? Because...

I even think about a lot of farmers and things like that, that even to begin with, they're reluctant to get help. And so if they have to come in and talk to a screen, a doctor who's far away, they probably feel like what's even the point. And now, as you said, there's nine geriatrics, geriatricians here. This is probably a hub for people to come, people flock here to get help. Do you ever look back and think about the impact that you've had on the people?

Yeah, Dylan. Yeah, I think it's very humbling sometimes to even to think that if I were to talk about the stroke services. So we have a stroke service that's now run at the base hospital, which thrombolytes a patient who comes in within within a certain period of time. We assess patients with very highly specialized three types of scans and then

review these patients for clot retrieval where you pull out the clot from the brain. We don't do the actual pulling out part, but we do 90 % of the patient work up of that and then present that patient to Brisbane hospitals. And we'll do that with telehealth to 28 other hospitals in the region. Now, these patients either had a major stroke and never seen a hospital for this treatment.

And again, I'm very proud to say that with me arriving, we formalized this process. We have that process and the Darling Downs, Toowoomba region patients do not need to go to Brisbane hospitals for that. We provide that. It's not just that. Dementia, I told you that we started the clinic once a month. I now have four clinics running every week in Toowoomba. So we see about 30 odd.

Dylan Pathirana (57:46.126)
new dementia patients, diagnosis and treatment, all these patients had to go to Brisbane before. And dementia patients, don't travel well, as you know, cognitively impaired patients. And not only that, in the private sector, in the private clinic, we see additional about 200 patients every year. So all in all, about 500 patients in that. Then the Parkinson's services that I run.

I was the only Parkinson's specialist until 2018. Now I've got a neurology team coming and helping me out. And all these patients would have otherwise traveled. And I still get patients west of. You think about Australia, and when you think about Australia, we think about Melbourne, Sydney, the specialized. But you would not believe the inequality of how health system is. You have.

to probably travel about 150 kilometers inwards from the sea line. The next specialist you have, when you have the group of specialists we have in Tohomba, if you go west until you hit Perth, you will not see a geriatrician if you go west. That's crazy. You see heaps when you go south. You see heaps when you go through your coast to north.

But when you travel west, there's no one. So I still have patients coming and seeing me 900 kilometers on a bus. So the person comes two days before coming to Toowoomba, stay for a day to have a one hour meeting and then to go travel back. So I'm very proud of what I have done for Toowoomba, but there's so much that you still need to do. And that's where I tell my

trainees that I like you to come to Toowoomba, but I would be even more happier if you'd chosen a place like, place like what Toowoomba was like 12 years ago. And I don't want to name these places, but there are heaps of places that you can still think of and build up these services. Because at the end of the day, it's the community you look after. And most of the community will not.

Dylan Pathirana (01:00:06.718)
search was most of the people even don't know what's there that can be treated. There will be, as we speak, there will be three or four stroke patients in the far region, far west, who would have a stroke who will not have the access to good stroke care and will be disabled when they have the chance to come in and get treated and walk away, walk home in a day's time. Yeah. I think that's really powerful, right?

thinking about that even in a country like Australia, where it's top tier, there's still such a big inequality in access to something so basic. Absolutely. And if I were to change something, that's something I would be looking. Yeah. So this is amazing, Harsh, you know, some of the stuff that you shared that we didn't even know. So which is thank you for sharing those things. But

Looking back, you came a long way and I'm sure you have plans to progress further. Do you think to achieve what you achieve, is there anyone support you or I have to ask this question, right? There's somebody else behind helping you to get to where you are. Absolutely. I think a significant portion of what I have.

Again, to answer to the questions, there's huge part of this is with your family, what's around you immediately. And then there is another group of people who work with you to get to where you are. That's your team, colleague team. Before I get to my colleagues and team, I think you can't get to where you are without the closest people that's with you every day.

and again Padmika. Starting with my, I told you about my parents who have given me all the facilities to get the education that you need to be here. But then from the day I met Padmika and the support she has given you, she has compromised a lot.

Dylan Pathirana (01:02:26.798)
She's a solicitor, she's qualified, Sri Lankan qualified and a UK qualified solicitor. She could find a job anywhere if she wants to. But she sacrificed that since we had our daughter. And for her education and then looking after the household and things like that. And she's been with me for the last 25 years, the support she has given me.

And then also the encouragement she has given me. Again, I think of coming to the UK, Australia was a big step to take. She gave me all the encouragement. We'll go and see what happens and if it doesn't, we always can come back to UK and that encouragement. Now again, I do three jobs at this point of time. I can't do that if Patmika wasn't doing.

what otherwise I had to do at home. And I wish I could be the Superman to do everything, but you can't. And I am good at what I do at work, but I should say I'm not kind of say rubbish person when it comes to day -to -day home management. She does it so superbly. And also my colleagues know that in the private practice that I have, she looks after the staff there and does the things that I can't do.

So it's a huge teamwork. Again, Sandali, my daughter, she helps me in different ways. does help in, and also the financials. She comes and helps us out in number of things. And also to have that, to lead this busy life, need to have, when you come home, you have to have, when you are...

When you are in a busy day, you have to look forward to. I always look forward to the time that I finish this and come home because I have a lovely wife and a daughter to come home. I think the success again, when you look at that, you ask about the success, the big part of success is also the happiness you have at home. It's the people that you surround yourself with, right? Absolutely. At the end of the day, as much as you're trying to do this for impact, it's also...

Dylan Pathirana (01:04:43.852)
I'm sure you feel some sort of responsibility to provide as well. As a father and as a husband, as you said, Padmika has given up everything. And so I'm sure there's some sort of responsibility that you feel to make up for that. absolutely. Now, she asked me sometimes in joyful manner, would you have preferred to marry another doctor like you who would have done everything?

you'd be very happy. I know that she asked me just to get my perspective. And although I would say yes, yes, I would have, but I know within me, if I were to do this again, I'll have any day again. Because I think I'd say that to some of my junior doctors as well, some of them, I think the happiest professional sometimes is happiest in a professional way. you have busy professional life that has gone to the top,

are the people who has the best support at home. Yeah. And if you have that best support to get back to and also a busy day, you'll have a very ordinary day at work. And when that happens, you know that the next day is not going to be as bad as today, but at least in between, you have a period you can go home and relate some of your bad, share that sorrow or the bad experience with that. I can get your head out of it.

Absolutely. And then she also has a good instinct as to let's do this. And if she says that most of the time, she's right. Well, mean, mommy, we could talk for hours. I just looked down at the time and it's been over an hour. And so I kind of want to wrap this conversation up, but looking back on your incredible journey, do you feel successful?

I feel satisfied and it's very, success is not a word I like to use, to be honest. But if we relate it back to your definition of success, so feeling happy, bringing others up with you, having freedom and agency and having impact, upon that definition, do you feel successful? Absolutely, yeah. I think I have achieved all that. And thank you Dylan, to summarize that for me. Yeah?

Dylan Pathirana (01:07:07.808)
And that is where I feel I am a Buddhist. And Buddhism, I don't follow the Buddhism in the strictest way, but I feel that in ways I follow that very well, because through what you have just said, I ticked most of the boxes, not just for being, if that is the success, I think I have achieved that. And mainly,

through bringing that team along with me. One of the things I couldn't tell you was the, finally about, you talked about the family support. There was not, there was absolutely, I got that. And I think I have done injustice if I haven't told you. Somebody could say, wow, this guy has come to Toowoomba has done this and done that. But you could not have done any of this without your team. Yeah? Now I have got from that nine,

group of nine to about 55. Yeah, in the department. Each one of them is responsible to where we are at the moment. And we have the private practice we have is the biggest in Queensland in the private geriatrics. Probably, I'm not sure, maybe one of the biggest in Australia as well. The regional.

geriatrics, if you look at outside the metropolitan cities, I can honestly say that ours should be the biggest geriatric department in a regional center as well. Leader can only be a leader. Leader is only as good as your team is. You can't be to where you are without the hard work of your team. I don't want to name individually.

Let it be the private practice. Let it be the public work that you do without the team. You are no one. You can only have your ideas, but to execute your ideas, need to have a team. Jam, you would agree because you, you, you, done the same and the, I'm so glad about it as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I want to wrap up by walking through some of the, my key takeaways from this conversation.

Dylan Pathirana (01:09:30.017)
Things which I think you've done extremely well and have contributed to your success in both our definitions. So I'd say the first one you touched on it a bit was taking opportunities as they come. You know, there was the opportunity to go into stroke care and you took that in your stride. Opportunity to go to the UK, opportunity to come to Australia, opportunity to start private practice. And you said as you open one door, five others open as well.

And I think that's a key trait that we're finding in a lot of people going and taking opportunities rather than just sitting and being comfortable, just always continuing to try and grow. think that's a very important thing. Another one is there's two that kind of relate very humble and also selfless. And I think even just in that last sentence, you said trying to push your success away from you and put it onto the others around you.

And I mean, you would be doing yourself an injustice if you didn't take some of that credit as well. But I think you really talk about impact and how other people have helped. And I think that's a very strong thing to do as a leader. And I think a lot of people will follow you because of that. I think a selfless leader is someone that people are.

wouldn't think twice about following. So I think that's key thing. And also you take on board the lessons of other people. Whether it be your mentors throughout your journey, I think a lot of people could have ego and go, I'm going to be better than these guys. But you always took on board the lessons and learnt the things that they'd spent their entire career learning. And whether it's you're reading books or you're learning from mentors or things like that.

I think consolidating knowledge of people who have gone before you is something really powerful and helps accelerate your trajectory. And then the last one I put is, I'm not sure if this is the right word, but level -headed. When you were talking about presenting data and making sure you had the right data to present to get more colleagues on board, you know, a lot of people could have just whinged and complained, we're under resourced, we don't have the right people, the right team.

Dylan Pathirana (01:11:55.618)
but just actually going, how, maybe it's resourceful. How do I get this? Okay, they're gonna wanna see data. Okay, I'm gonna go and do this and going out and getting the things you need done, I think is another thing which has contributed to where you are today. Just to add to that also, it's very interesting, Arshana sharing this whole journey because I don't think even I know you for over...

quarter of century, but I don't think we had this discussion. it's really good to understand your journey and we both learn quite a lot today. And also knowing you very well as well. you always think of others, right? You are a team player, you're always, you could be a leader or you could be a follower, but you always want to contribute. You always mention your success is not just

you've been successful. It's about how can we bring everyone around you? So that's something that we've seen through our podcast journey as well. Most people, they see their success bringing everyone together and you're a great example of that. So that's part of the... Absolutely. One of the key takeaways. So Marmin, thank you so much for this opportunity to sit down and being open and telling us the whole story.

Honestly, it's very inspirational and I'm glad we had the time to sit down and have this chat. Thank you Dylan, thank you so much and thank you Jame for inviting me and as you said we can go on forever if you want but only time will limit us. I see you most of the qualities that I had when I was in the US, knowing for such a long time even as a small kid.

and

Dylan Pathirana (01:13:54.366)
I, my instincts are really good. from, from you are showing all the co qualities that I saw in myself and getting these things to get to where you are. And, and if I were to probably to add something, this might be out of this podcast altogether, but there's always times where you would sometimes think, I'm doing great, but

Should I need to get there a bit quicker than that? But knowing you, I know that's not how you think about things. I have read your podcasts, I've read your blogs as such. It's amazing the way at the age of 23, the way that you think. If I was able to think the way you thought at that time, and maybe even you maybe have got a bit of genes from your dad, and...

I can see yourself in this part of the podcast at a stage and probably another small kid now will probably be starting a podcast on that day as well. And all the very best for a bright future, which I see in you. Thank you, I mean, we're all just standing on the shoulders of giants. And on that note, we'll wrap it up. Thank you so much for listening. Please, if you haven't already, leave us a five -star review on Apple podcasts and Spotify.

And also check us out on YouTube and consider subscribing. And if you haven't already head over to our website, the quest for success podcast .com and complete our success survey. So we can hear from you what success means to you. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next week. Thank you.