The Art of Success - Gretel Killeen

In this captivating episode of The Quest for Success Podcast, we sit down with the multi-talented Gretel Killeen, an author, stand-up comedian, radio host, and artist with over 30 books to her name. Gretel opens up about her unique definition of success, which extends far beyond career achievements. For her, true success lies in the fulfilment of one’s potential, embracing values like kindness, fun, and love.

Join us as we explore Gretel’s journey in the spotlight, where she reflects on the difference between public recognition and personal growth, revealing why she now values the latter more. We dive into the importance of confidence, both in creative and entrepreneurial paths, and the distinction between superficial and genuine confidence built through skill and perseverance.

Gretel and the hosts also discuss the constant battle between artistic spirit and society’s emphasis on structure. They explore how personal, psychological, and societal boundaries can either nurture or suppress creativity, especially during life-changing events like COVID.

Additionally, the conversation touches on entrepreneurship as a form of artistry, the sacrifices often made in pursuit of success, and how daily impact and kindness should be the legacy we strive for rather than waiting until the end of our careers.

This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone on a creative, entrepreneurial, or personal growth journey.

#GretelKilleen #creativesuccess  #entrepreneurship #ConfidenceInCreativity #personalgrowth  #successmindset  #QuestForSuccess #BreakingBoundaries #DailyImpact #SuccessSacrifices #ArtAndEntrepreneurship #KindnessAndLegacy

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Transcript

Dylan Pathirana (00:13.704)
All right, welcome back to the Quest for Success podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in once again. We are incredibly excited today because we are joined by the wonderful Gretel Colleen. Gretel, thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure. Thank you for asking me. Gretel, it's really honored to have you here. So I met Gretel first time. I don't even remember remember me.

It's 2005 after tsunami, I had to organize an event because I had a long story. I was at Vodafone Australia and then we organized an event for raise funds for children to build hospitals and schools. And at that charity, you came as the UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador to accept the cheque at the event. So that was 2005. And then after that,

We met again about four years ago at the Dimex Children Charities event and you were at the great debate. You were actually in the debate, part of the debate group. And then the following year, again, you were hosting the event and that's when we kind of met. So it's lovely to have you and thanks for taking our invitation and accepting our invitation and joining us today. It's a pleasure. It's interesting, isn't it? There are people that you connect with.

We see a lot of people at events like this in our lives, but you and I have just had that connection, haven't we, of just fondness, I guess, whenever we've seen each other. So it's a pleasure to be here. Yeah. And so Gretel, we like to start this conversation off and really frame what we're going to talk about. And so I want to ask you, what does success mean to you?

I think, well I can already, I'm imagining what other people say. I think success to me probably means fulfilling your potential. But I don't just mean in a career wise, I mean in fulfilling your potential in terms of how much fun you could be or how bright you are or how kind you can be, how much love you have in your life. It's fulfilling.

Dylan Pathirana (02:33.12)
truly blossoming into the person that you're capable of being. I think that's success. That's an amazing way to put it, your success. So Gretel, when I said to Dylan, I was really excited when you accepted our invitation, I said to Dylan, Gretel, Colleen's going to join us in our podcast. And he asked me, who's Gretel?

I know we know you quite well and you've done so many things. We know you from Big Brother and you know working in multiple television programs etc. But what have you been doing over the recent years? Well, the television was only a small part of my life really and Dylan's probably too young.

I was part of a show nearly 20 years ago that impacted our society a lot because of the nature of the show. before that, I'm a novelist originally and a stand -up comic. I've written 30 novels. stand -up comic is how I started. Then I got into writing comedy for radio and doing the voices there. Then I became a voice artist for

17 years. I've done a lot of journalism and radio hosting and things but the reason Dylan wouldn't know of me is because I haven't really been in the limelight and I haven't wanted to be. Fame is a really interesting experience but it's not somewhere where I want to be all the time. I'm glad to have had that experience of

being famous and the different opportunities and being recognised, but it's also very limiting. I'm in no way distressed that you don't know who I am, Dylan. I'm kind of flimsy. Yeah, I was doing a little bit of research before this and it just seems like you have done so many incredible things. Honestly, it seems like there's nothing that you haven't done.

Dylan Pathirana (04:56.424)
what, I'm sure there are things I haven't done, I'm always looking for adventures because that's part of, I think that, that we need to push past the boundaries that limit us, whether it's, I mean, financial boundaries are difficult to just willfully decide, I'm going to ignore those. But if it's a psychological barrier,

a fear -based one in terms of not doing something, then I think it's really important to conquer it. And I think the more that you conquer these things, the you become bigger and braver and stronger, and then you become more capable of pushing the boundaries even further away. I mean, like a lot of people, think, just on that note, a lot of people after COVID, I think, found that their world did become smaller and now have to consciously make an effort.

to push those boundaries out again. And I also have to make a conscious effort to push myself, not necessarily in the art I do, but in terms of travel, because the unimaginable, was previously, how could we possibly spend all that time indoors and not travelling overseas during the pandemic? And then we became used to it and kind of comfortable in the confines of that.

So I'm aware for me that I'm conscious of challenging myself again. I've always been motivated helping other people, travelling with helping other people as the main drive. And now I'm looking at, okay, well, my art is a drive, helping other people is a drive, and then what else is my incentive to go out and see the world? So while it might look like I've done everything, of course, I've done like a fingernail of.

what is possible in the whole world. It's a tiny little bit. And we've noticed that a lot of the guests that we talk to, your whole life is always shaped by your early years. And so I want to take a step back to your early life and really understand how it's shaped who you've become today. Well, actually, I feel like I want to know how everybody else was shaped.

Dylan Pathirana (07:19.342)
Do you mean like the influence of their families or what kind of things? Yeah, how your parents and your environment as well, like the area you grew up in, really shaped your early journey. I believe, Gretel, you were born in Taramara and that's where we are today. Is it? Right. Very nice.

Very nice. I think there's a step before what you're saying, actually, Dylan, and that is I actually think you're born who you are. And then things either encourage you to blossom or discourage you. And so I don't think your environment makes it makes you. I think you're born with your spirit and your soul and your energy and your potential. But sometimes that can be limited.

by the limitations of others or the fears of other people. And then you can spend a lot of your life undoing that and trying to reclaim the shape that is yours. So I think for many people, it's very hard to grow up in an environment that thoroughly endorses and supports your uniqueness because it's hard for a family to navigate a whole lot of little people and

themselves as well. It's hard for all the focus required for each individual or the freedom to blossom. So most of us end up a bit dented out of shape. And then there are some people who unfortunately have terribly scarring issues that are very, very difficult to overcome. I was born with an artistic spirit, which my grandma had and also

my four beers before her. That's not an easy spirit to accommodate for a family. Because while some people yearn for, as you would see in workplaces, they yearn for structure. Other people don't want structure. And it's really the control versus chaos notion. Artistic people often

Dylan Pathirana (09:47.66)
don't want to be in an environment that is controlled. They like wondering what's going to happen. They like the challenge of that. They like the problem solving of it. So while some people get great comfort from the structure of our society, other people get great discomfort. I get discomfort from it, from predictability and conformity. But that means that

had that bit squashed out of me when I was growing up and then you kind of spend the rest of your life trying to find who you were originally. I imagine that you're born the right as you are and then if I think of it as play dough, dents and your shape goes away, you like it's poked in a bit here and prodded there. And then it's just about trying to let those dents and dashes

subside so that your original shape is there. So hopefully by the end of your life you've reclaimed your shape and lived however much of your life as you as you can. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's such a profound way to look at it. The fact that you are born who you already are and then it's your outside world actually takes away or changes who you are. I think that's a

Excellent way to put it. And you mentioned that you were a very artistic spirit. And then I know that you ended up actually starting a law degree. And for me, there's a missing piece there because that doesn't seem like the normal path for an artistic spirit. Can you walk us through that journey? Well, just on that point that you were making before, all, it's not always the case that the environment you grow up with

is discouraging. mean, we have the vision with the Olympics of these incredibly supportive families who are there striving to support somebody's vision and potential. So it can be either way and maybe if one person in that family is supported, another one is not being supported. So who knows what this perfect world is that we aspire to. But

Dylan Pathirana (12:08.43)
I'm of a generation and of a culture that where artistic pursuits, it didn't have any value at all. It was about academia. And I am an academic person myself, I have been in the past. I just happened to be artistic as well. But when I was at school and studying, women who had an

a mind like mine, you either went into medicine or law. It wasn't that the whole world was opened up to you. You know, we're talking about women had only been accepted into universities for several decades and women were only now starting to have respected careers. So when the world opened up to us that first step, women were allowed to be teachers and nurses. And then the next step was, we could be doctors and lawyers, but it wasn't.

And now we support you to go into this wild and crazy world of artistry. And I think a lot of people, they... Look, I could be wrong on this, and you've no doubt interviewed other creative people, but you do tend to need someone in your environment to be of that ilk, to have that kind of capacity to show you what is possible.

in the world. And if you don't have that, you can be a bit lost. And I think it's only now as I get older that I see being creative as a very valid pursuit. Our society, it doesn't talk with respect about creativity. It can be dismissive calling people creatives when they're absolutely not creative at all. It's something in your soul. It's not

I think I might do this. It's I can't survive if I don't do it. So it's a very powerful thread to have that artistic energy inside you. But it's like being an alien if you don't have role models or and some people I know grew up with family dinner parties where they discuss the color blue. No, we talked about chops and.

Dylan Pathirana (14:27.288)
Brussels sprouts in a perfectly lovely home. But you know, we weren't talking about art or poetry. And I think that would legitimize the pursuit if you did grow up with other people at the dinner table who valued this. But as you know, in our society, it's, it's all about how much money you have at the moment and how many influences you have, no matter how back you as the reason why you have them and

how many properties you have. The level of spiritual growth is pretty minimal at this time in history, I think, and the desire for it and the desire to find your uniqueness. So it's a long journey to reclaim that, think. And did you only start to realize that like now looking back, or did you feel that way in the moment? Were you like upset that you couldn't pursue your artistic passion?

Dylan Pathirana (15:27.476)
No, I didn't know. I think many of us and you too as entrepreneurs, probably feel, I'm guessing, you can tell me if I'm wrong, that when you come across fellow entrepreneurs, it's like meeting someone from your tribe and you relate to them and connect. And it's really, it's lovely. There's a language that you can speak together that other people don't necessarily understand.

Well, that's the same with people like myself. I like people who get what I'm talking about and who can laugh at the same jokes and have the same level of curiosity. I think as with most things in life, you don't necessarily know what's missing when you're young because you don't know what you don't know. And then, as I said, you start pushing the boundaries a little bit.

Then you discover who you are and think, wow. And I meet other people and look at their lives and think, yes, you had a little bit of endorsement and support. That must have made a difference. Well, someone gave you a machete to walk through the jungle. There was already a path. I love my god. Pushing through all of the leaves and whatever. But that journey itself, my journey has a uniqueness and that allows me

to perhaps have a richness. Maybe if it had all been handed on a platter to me, then I would have a more superficial perspective or a lack of appreciation. But what it has done for me is really a treasure and respect that spirit inside of me and feel that I have to honor it. It doesn't mean that I necessarily know how to do it, but it's

my motivator. That's very interesting Gretel. You mentioned that creativity. I feel like I can really connect it to you. Not that I'm the same level like creative like you, but when you're talking about entrepreneurship, you cannot be a real entrepreneur without having that creativity. You you got to, you got to, you got to have like crazy mindset, know, artistic mindset in a more different way.

Dylan Pathirana (17:53.72)
So I can see because I exactly like you need that freedom. I hate structure boundaries. That's how we feel when we talk into entrepreneurs. Like they are all artists in our own right. Yes, I'm interested in what you're saying about the creativity of entrepreneurs. There's also a tremendous self -confidence that entrepreneurs

require that I'm not sure sits hand in hand for the traditional artistic energy because often in the arts it's disproportionate the amount of talent and the amount of confidence. Actually maybe it's the same with entrepreneurs. You can tell me there are, I probably see these ones who are incredibly brash and confident but not necessarily that good. You can get a long way on confidence, can't you?

Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's all part of the founders journey as well. I think you build that confidence as you go. Even if it begins with self confidence, I think it has to start there. But then as you go and you start to you're grinding away in the background and you start to see a little bit of success, then I think the confidence becomes a bit more outwards. And also having that risk taking ability that that's something that you learn. I mean, yes, most of us have that.

risk -taking ability more than the normal people. But again, we developed that as well. For me doing this for 20 years, the risk, if I don't take risks, I get really nervous. I need to take risks and I need to do something outside the box stuff. Really? that's interesting. But there is also a lot of room in both of the industries, I think, where

So there's the level of confidence, is a sincere confidence, confidence in ability. And then there's, and I don't know what the word is for this, but kind of a showpining thing. And we see investors, for example, fall for these showpineys. They look like they walk the talk and then somebody falls for their magic spell of charisma and whatever. And then they give a bit of investment money and then someone else starts following on that.

Dylan Pathirana (20:17.912)
So I don't know what that word is because it's not a confidence that's built on a track record. It's self -confidence that they're just born that way. And it's amazing how magnetic that can actually be. It doesn't mean success follows. It just means those first steps of getting investors there. Isn't that same with the artists? Like, know, sometimes your reputation, right?

You know, like people go and pay big bucks for your reputation, your brand. Yes, but I'm talking at a different stage, like talking at the very preliminary one. Before there even is a brand, there are some people and I don't relate to them at all who. And maybe they were brought up differently or maybe they were just born like this. They're incredibly self -assured.

people. And it is not based on anything at all. They're just self assured. And I think that must be a very nice way to live. To not have doubt, to feel like because some people, depending on your upbringing and incidents in your life can feel endangered a lot of the time. And you can feel like you're a powerless and it's a it's a big steep climb in life. But there are other people

And I don't know why maybe they were spoiled or really loved or I don't know, they only children, did they have nice shiny hair? I don't know what it is, but they, they grow up and they just expect the world to like them. And weirdly the world does because it responds. It responds to that confidence, but that's very different to the talent that is required for the next step.

to be a truly great entrepreneur, that's the next step, the one that you guys are talking about, to be a truly great artist. To be a great artist, you have to find your uniqueness. It's not about finding someone who thinks you're a good person or someone who thinks you're fashionable to have at a dinner party. It's about pushing and pushing for that uniqueness. And entrepreneurs have to offer something unique as well.

Dylan Pathirana (22:44.834)
And you have to be able to perceive the world and what does the world want? Not just what do I want to give, but what does the world need? How can I satisfy that need? So I think that the confidence and charm serve you initially. And as we know, a lot of people give up if they don't get that support initially. They don't realize some friends of mine are entrepreneurs and it is a relentless challenge, isn't it? It's absolutely like you use the word.

success, Dylan, but I mean, when does anyone say, I'm successful? I don't know anyone really who says I have enough. I heard Jim Carrey say it the other day. I think that's what we're finding is, and I think that goes against the traditional definition, right? Everyone thinks success is this imaginary, is this destination somewhere in the future, but

from all our conversations, it almost seems like it is this imaginary unicorn that maybe it's the journey and the things that we do along the journey that makes us successful. don't know many people who refer to themselves as successful. I know because they usually have something that they want beyond that. mean, I think the last thing you would ever want in life is

an insatiable hunger for power or wealth, because to me that's vacuous and as I said, insatiable, so what's the point in it? But to have a hunger for challenge and to discover what you're capable of, I think that's a really wonderful goal. That's very life affirming. yeah, so tell me what are other people

telling you their notion of success is, very curious. Well, a lot of people, it has to do with impact is I think one of the big words that we've come out of these conversations is a lot of the people who are later in their career and they're now in the stage of looking back and looking at how much can I give back to other people? And for them, that is what success is.

Dylan Pathirana (25:06.412)
their ability to have ongoing impact. I think that's probably one of the major ones. So Gretel, what we're planning to do, think initially we start this as a bit of a hobby, but we can see lot of trends. Now when we're talking to people, very similar, know, what success mean to them and also very interesting conversation that we had so far.

what we are doing in a bit of like a research to actually really identify what success mean to people and maybe what are the success ingredients. So we need some advice from you. I know you said that you've done over 30 publications or books written. Maybe this could be turn up to a quest for success, you know, book somewhere down the line. Why not? Why not?

it's, it is interesting. the, I always feel fascinated by people who reach a line in their life where it's about the difference that they can make after a certain point, because the difference you can make in life really should be there your whole life. I think it's, it's

it should be something in our day to day existence. What difference am I making to the person who's serving me in the grocery store? What difference am I making to the person who's honking the horn of their car at me? Like what every day we should be aspiring to be making a positive difference. Absolutely. think there's a there's very interesting connection in my mind for business people.

A lot of people I know who work in business, they reach a point where they're retiring and then they want to give back. And they start to talk about that as the legacy. which is an interesting thing which

Dylan Pathirana (27:18.478)
is a little bit could be interpreted as I want to have an important life. Whereas humility is not really about having an important life. It's about having a good life all the time, not crossing over a line. And now I will give back. Does that make sense? I would like to encourage people. I 100 % agree with you. It shouldn't be a line in the sand where

all of a sudden, okay, now it's time to give back and now it's time to have impact that should should be part of the journey. And I think that's also what a lot of people have realized is it is the as cliche as it is, it is the journey that every day trying to be 1 % better. And I suppose that goes to your definition, which is really trying to fulfill your potential and trying to improve yourself along that journey.

It's interesting though, yes, I agree with both of us, but I think that it's very important for me to reiterate that it's not potential in terms of what a lot of society thinks of as potential, which is leadership and power. It's potential for even the littlest things.

And as I mentioned before, to just be kind, to just be patient. And these are not qualities that are valued in my observation in a great deal of the corporate world and a great deal of our society.

I would really love that to be emphasised because the current path is not bringing a lot of people happiness. Now we have very high rates of anxiety and depression and disconnection from society and purpose. We know in theory what we're supposed to have and aspire to, but the practice is very, very hard. And it's often invisible. Your kindness doesn't always come with a badge. It doesn't always come with a ceremony where you're honoured. It often doesn't even come with a thank you.

Dylan Pathirana (29:30.184)
That's very important for our society, I think, to understand that everything doesn't need to be acknowledged externally, that you can just quietly do something and that's a good thing and that will build and really what I'm talking about is a whole restructure of life philosophy. I think we're totally on the wrong path. Other people seem content with the path, others are discontent but

You have to find the path that does work for you, don't you? And if that means thinking outside the square, then in a positive way, then that's good. I'm interested in terms of success. Has anyone said something to you when you really thought, my goodness, that really blows me away? someone said, yeah, I have to kill mosquitoes every day or, know, like what?

One of the interesting things, I mean, heard, we only done like 21 episodes so far, a long way to go, but one of the interesting, someone said other day, success, it's a journey, like, you know, it's a moving target, but it's success also about be able to let things go. So, you know, not like everyone focusing on achieving things, but his

his way of saying sometimes, let things go, sacrifices, making a lot of sacrifices to achieve something. So it's kind of an interesting, I thought that's something different, but also your perspective is also really important because end of the day, you don't need to wait till your retirement to be kind and nice and give back to people. I mean, you already proven,

That Garetto, you know, you and I both met 20 years ago doing charity and last three times, we always doing charities, right? So we love something that in common doing that kind of giving away our time and effort into it. But I'm interested to, I mean, when we start talking about sacrifice, could you give me an example like what

Dylan Pathirana (31:55.478)
kind of things are sacrificed in this person's journey to success? So it's like, know, like if you're international, like you want to become a top athlete, right? You're giving away so much your family time, hanging out with your friends, all the normal people, things that normal people do, so become that, you know, winning a gold medal.

You know, things like that. So the person that we spoke to is an international cricket player. that, that, so he had to let a lot of things go to achieve that, that success for him. know what I mean? Like it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I do. I'd be interested to know if at the time he thought it was a sacrifice.

because often when your goal is very clear, you don't see the other things as a sacrifice because it's not even a choice. I must say there are several friends of mine and these are largely men, but that's because of my generation that the men tended to be more of the successful business person, more of them, not uniquely men, but and

there was a certain selfishness in their pursuits as well. And that where the partner might be left to raise the children and do, which is a very hard job, as we know, looking after all of them and without the kudos and the long hours that someone might do. once again, it's getting back to that

Perhaps it's better framed in terms of who are you when no one's watching? Who are you then? When no one sees these acts of yours. And when I say reaching potential, I'm talking about, as I said, being as bright as you can be or as funny. It's not, it's not, you know, of course I want to, my, my pursuits can lead to recognition and they can lead to financial rewards. I'm not saying

Dylan Pathirana (34:16.556)
I'm taking the path of a pilgrim wandering through the desert. You know, I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that it's not a competition with others. It's actually about yourself. That I think is a very, yeah, it's a very big step from external accolades. It's the opposite of external accolades. It's a very personal journey.

And there are a lot of flags in our society that will reinforce particular decisions. If you went to this university, if you have that career, if you have this kind of marriage, if you, you know, there are flags all the way along and the more conservative your path or the more financially rewarding flag, flag, flag, flag, and you get supported and endorsed along the way. But the invisible ones, they don't.

So that takes actually stronger self -determination and stronger self -belief to pursue that path because the quiet, humble path doesn't have flags. So you genuinely have to have tremendous reserve and belief in your spiritual hook and your spiritual direction to follow it because most of society will say, don't follow that. So that's really a shout out to

the misfits and the ones that because the more conservative you are, you know, you get patted on the back all the time. I suppose that's that's something that's so so common now. Everyone sees this this shining lights of what what life should be through social media and traditional media. It's it's kind of front of mind for everyone. But.

I like your approach of really run your own race, essentially. Be authentic to who you are and play out your journey the way that you want it to be run.

Dylan Pathirana (36:28.994)
And also not just want, because there's a certain level of surrendering as well. It's because want can be impinged upon by subconscious notions of what you're meant to be. So we are so bombarded with the power that we should have and the money that we should have and the lifestyle that we should have that actually unpeeling all of that and getting to the true essence of yourself and what you think

is important is a really challenging thing to do. It's like diving down right down down to the bottom of the sea and all the treasures are on the floor of the ocean. But we live in a society that keeps telling you to bounce up, bounce up, bounce up, come back up to the top. This is where you need the time to go down and to really seek those treasures out. I think we would be a lot better off with

discussing philosophy a lot more and digging deeper into what our real values are. Because at the moment, there is no depth to a lot of the values. But I'm really interested. I actually hear everything that you've been bringing on your interview. Like, how have your I mean, you're young, Dylan. What has your notion of success changed as you talk to people? Absolutely.

I really enjoy conversations with people who are older than me because I am aware that they're in a different perspective and they have the ability to look back on and reflect on where they were in my shoes. And I love to get the lessons that they have and their perspectives as well, because I know one day I'll be in their shoes. And I think for me, it's definitely

made me think a lot more deeply about what I want and the course that I want as well. Because I don't want to follow the traditional definition of success and eventually get to be an old man and look back and have the same regrets that some of the people we've spoken to have as well. So it's been an incredible learning journey for me. And just out of curiosity, what kind of regrets did people have?

Dylan Pathirana (38:56.41)
It's a lot. It's a mix of things. Even some people had regrets of I thought it would be a lot of regrets of things they didn't do, but it was also regrets of things that they had done and even just not taking opportunities or the they're so so broad. And I think also taking the time, not taking the time to learn enough as well is another big one for me. So I.

think that's something I'm trying to implement more, spend more time. And I think as well, it's everyone when they're young, they were in a kind of hustle mindset and wanted to just chase the money, chase the lights. And now they kind of regret that because they missed out on a lot of wholesome relationships and actual connections as well. So I'm just trying to keep that in mind as I go forward as well. Yeah.

Well, it's interesting because they always say people regret the things they didn't do, but now you're telling us some of them actually regret the things they did do as well. So yeah, which goes to prove there are rules. are no rules. Yeah. And, and Gretel, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been incredibly insightful. I just, I like to wrap up each of these conversations with a few, a few key takeaways on some things which I think have, have

led to me calling you successful. Let's put it that way, because as you said, you may not feel successful. And so I think one of them for me is you have a very strong emphasis on overcoming boundaries. You don't let things stand in your way. And I think that's extremely powerful because rather than keeping the weights on, you free yourself of that burden and it enables you to

to move forward in your journey, is great. And I think another one for me is clearly people listening to this will agree with me. You're an incredibly deep thinker. And I'm honestly blown away with some of this conversation because it's been very introspective and made me think a lot deeply about my own preconceptions. And I think your ability to not just go with the flow,

Dylan Pathirana (41:23.874)
traditional norm, except what everyone else is thinking as well. You, you think really deeply about things and, and form your own opinion, which is becoming very rare these days. So I really appreciate that about you. And the last one is you're very holistic as well. You, you look at life, not just about achieving one particular thing. It's about being comfortable in

yourself and the journey that you're having and not worrying about what others are trying to do. And I think that's something that doesn't get talked about enough. So I'm really glad we had time to have this conversation. And also just to add to that Dylan's list and your interest in learning about everything, you know, and I mean, this conversation, I feel like rather than we interviewing you, you actually interview us, you know, like

asking a lot of questions about our learning and it's amazing. I wish we can spend a bit more time on this discussion because it's more like a conversation. I'm pretty sure Gretel, we will have another chat maybe later down the track when we have more research, more sessions, so we can give you a lot more information. We'll do a part two. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. Because you actually, we had a bit of a structure that we want to ask you about your story and all that. But you kind of driven that into a different direction, which is fantastic because that's unique. No, no, no, no. That's actually quite unique, you know, like all the things that we've done. That's fantastic. And Gretel, for people who want to follow you, is there a place that they can go and hear more about your story and the work that you're doing?

At the moment, the main place would just be really just Instagram is the only one that I mean, I'll probably do TikTok at some point, but I'm on the cusp of a new project and we'll just have faith that, you know, build it and people will come kind of thing. But the most important thing is the integrity of the project. then so people can just follow me where they'll just find me.

Dylan Pathirana (43:53.198)
I'll find you. But I do look forward to one reason and I know we've got to get a wriggle on but one reason is I don't like talking about like upbringing and things too much is because I want to discover the uniqueness of this conversation with you rather than me revealing the same things that I might have said at another time and it's really nice the interaction that I have with you so that's I want to know.

Who are these entrepreneurs? I know you're absolutely right. Well, that connection between artistry and entrepreneurs is maybe that will be part three of our conversation. Yeah. We've got a lot of conversations coming up. Absolutely. need your advice as well. as we, I mean, you already asked us to set the cameras properly and we got a lot of learning out of this conversation. I said it nicely though.

yeah, it was great. love it. love it. was just about head height. no, no. We really appreciate because we like to learn as well. We are we always want to learn. You know, this is the quest for success and where the quest is all about learning. The quest for success and equal head height.

That's it. And on that note, we'll wrap it up there for those of you who have listened to this conversation. If you could give us a five -star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, that'd be fantastic. And we'll see you guys in the next episode. Thank you, Gretel. Thank you.