The Secret to Engaging Your Team - Ishan Galapathy

In this thought-provoking episode of The Quest for Success Podcast, Dylan and Jam are joined by operational excellence expert Ishan Galapathy to explore the multifaceted nature of success. Ishan shares his journey from engineering to operational excellence, offering insights into the importance of employee engagement, effective leadership, and addressing disengagement in the workplace.

Discover how collaboration and communication are key to driving organisational success and improving productivity. The discussion delves deep into the challenges of leadership and the impact of disengaged employees, while also emphasising the importance of personal growth and the continuous journey toward success.

If you’re looking to enhance your leadership skills, improve employee engagement, or find inspiration for personal and professional growth, this episode is packed with valuable insights!

Resources Mentioned:
Visit Ishan Galapathy’s website: https://ishangalapathy.com/
Book mentioned in the episode: When All is Said and Done

#EmployeeEngagement #LeadershipSuccess #OperationalExcellence #IshanGalapathy #ProductivityHacks #BusinessPodcast #CollaborationInBusiness #PersonalGrowth #LeadershipSkills #QuestForSuccess #WorkplaceDisengagement

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Transcript

Dylan Pathirana (00:00.398)
the fear of failure. That imposter syndrome, no matter how knowledgeable I am, we still think we are not good enough. So you know who your good people are, you know who the disenchanted are, the ones you didn't think of are what's categorized as disengaged. 60%. So Paul said, if you listen, you forget.

If you look, you remember. If you do, you understand. I think the great leaders are the ones who are humble enough to listen to the people, humble enough to know that they don't have all the answers, but courageous enough to know that...

Dylan Pathirana (01:03.15)
All right, welcome back to the quest for success podcast and thanks for tuning in for another episode. We're really excited today because especially for me, you know, in this very much self -improvement stage and we're very lucky to be joined by Ishan Galapathy, who is a operational excellence and productivity guru.

So I'm really looking forward to deep diving into some of your learnings and exploring your journey. So thanks for joining us today. You're very welcome, Dylan. And yeah, guru. Okay. Now I'm a little bit challenged. So I don't know whether you're expecting to, for me to say anything profound now that you have put me to a guru status, but I generally go by, I'm an operational excellence strategist, which is a bit of a mouthful and a tongue twister.

and in, one of the interviews, one of the questions was what exactly is that? What do you actually do? was one of the questions you've got, but not, Hey, great afternoon and great weather and, great to be here. Yeah. Thanks. And I mean, you're a speaker as well. We've, we've got your two books over there as well. So you're very accomplished in this space. So really looking forward to diving into it. And to start this conversation, we really need to understand the core of what we're going to be talking about, which is success.

And so I want to ask you, what does success mean to you? Well, I think the day that I'm going to be wearing a quest for success t -shirt would be the kind of the height of my success. Obviously I'm not there yet. So perhaps one day. Interesting question, Dylan. Success means a lot of things to many people, right? And we define our own success. And in the...

first world countries that we live in, it's quite easy to fall into the whole capitalist kind of mindset of success is being measured through the things we have. The tangible things, the car you drive, the house you live in, the suburb you live in, and the clothes you wear, the brands. I'd like to think as, well, there are two aspects for me.

Dylan Pathirana (03:20.438)
There's the personal aspect and there's the professional aspect and from a personal aspect when people when people ask me this, you know, there's a there's a lighthearted version of what success looks like. And I basically say, look, I haven't had to give cornflakes for dinner for the family. I haven't had to go on seek .com and I haven't had I haven't ended up with.

an email address for one of my clients. This third one is a bit tricky. and I go like, if I can tick those three things, I'm going like, right, they're like very basic, but it kind of keeps me grounded. Obviously, I can keep the family fed and you know, and I can give them the basic needs. And haven't got, you know, the fact that I don't have to go on seek .com means obviously my practice is going okay.

And the third one is very important because there are often situations where when I engage with clients, you know, I enjoy the work that I do and there are opportunities and there are situations where they go like, well, come on, you know, we'll give you one of our email addresses and you you'll be one of us. So I constantly and consciously make sure that I stay on this side and I stay in my business.

but I provide the services. Now that's kind of the lighthearted version. I'm very big on setting goals and I'm also okay with not achieving the goals because that means you've set a goal that stretches you and it kind of gives you growth in my belief. yeah, as long as there are things

that drives you, there are things that grows you and there are things that energizes you. That's what success looks like for me. And there's a whole different model for my clients, you know, of how I helped them to become successful. But I think we'll go onto that a little bit later, perhaps when we deep dive into productivity and all of it. How does that sound? that? That's a very interesting way and very holistic definition of success. We get a lot of people who give us.

Dylan Pathirana (05:45.4)
You know, one -liners, but I really liked that kind of touched on all facets. As expected. And so you touched on what your actual role is, but I would like you to expand on that a bit more. So for people who are listening and hear your name, don't know who you are. Yes. What is it that you actually do?

Dylan Pathirana (06:09.262)
The easiest way to explain is now I've had the privilege of nearly 25 years or 25 plus predominantly in the manufacturing sector. And I've had roles of being in manufacturing management. So they're the roles that I've been responsible from converting raw material to finished goods and everything in between. And I've been privileged to work for a lot of the multinational companies that are well known in Australia and perhaps overseas as well.

But the bigger roles that I have played in continuous improvement or process improvement and operational excellence is the big umbrella word where I've played big roles, you know, looking after Asia PAC, looking after global continuous improvement for all these companies. So that's my background and experience and expertise. But 10 years ago, I had an opportunity to start my own consulting practice.

And I did that to help one of my own problems and also one of the other problems for the company. My own problem was I had two little boys and I was spending far too much time on hotels, planes and lounges. So I wanted to solve that problem. But the bigger problem for the companies is the way we improve productivity itself has become complex and complicated.

So I want to simplify things and that's what I stand for in trying to simplify things. You there are a lot of buzzwords, there are a lot of acronyms, there are a lot of big concepts. But at the end of the day, in a manufacturing or logistics point of view, there are people that we call the shop floor at, know, pretty much at the grassroots level. And the other people who are really adding value to the business. If they don't understand why we do what we do, if they don't understand

what are all these managers and leaders are doing to improve and to engage, then we've lost the plot. So a lot of the work I do is bringing people together from a people and process point of view and improving productivity. It's a little bit like this. Say you were watering your beautiful garden, right? And you're gonna be opening the tap and there comes a point where all of a sudden the water stops.

Dylan Pathirana (08:39.202)
And you look back and there's a kink in the hose. And you go like, right. You know, if you didn't see the kink, you're to be opening the tap and you're going to be frustrated because there's not enough water coming through. So, so you go and you go like, there's a kinky and you undo the kink and you come back and go like, there's more water coming through. And so improving productivity is a little bit like that. You know, if the hose is your business, you've got assets, you've got people. There's a limit. There's a

capacity of what the business can deliver. But there are kinks. There are the inefficiencies in the business that prevents you from getting the best of what those assets can deliver. We call it asset utilization is the fancier term. So you're not getting the best of the best of your assets. Some of those kinks are obvious. You look back and you know those problems. They're the problems when I start with my clients. I go like, where does it hurt the most?

Right. So don't do diagnostics because I think that's why consultants get a bad rap when we go and do diagnostics. So I've consciously gone, do not do diagnostics. you hear phrases like, do you want to borrow the watch to tell me the time? That's what diagnostics are. Right. You know, you're borrowing the watch to tell people the time. I don't do that. There are obvious spots that are hurting. They're the kinks that you see, but there are also kinks that you don't see.

So once we undo some of those kinks that you see, what I do best is then embedding frameworks, building capability within the business, so your people will see what I see, because I see lot of other kinks that's preventing you from getting the best of the best. And what that does is it allows you to release a lot of latent capacity, potential.

But what I love most, Jim and Dylan is when I go back to the businesses whom I've been working with, you know, 12 months later, they are delivering even 10, 15 % more with the same number of people and with less working capital, right? So there's less stuff in the middle. So what that means is people are happier because there's less frustrations, there are less kinks.

Dylan Pathirana (11:00.535)
But from a business owner's point of view, there's more profitability at the bottom line. Sorry, you were going to ask something. Yeah, I was going to ask what are those? Give us a bit of an example. I can't give you all my secrets. Yeah. There are a lot of methodologies. If you hear about lean manufacturing, does that mean anything to you? Right. So lean manufacturing is one of those frameworks that gives you

I guess, know, different lenses to look at where the where those losses are. The obvious losses are if you look at a P &L, where are the negative variances? So it's an opportunity of looking where the obvious kinks wherever there is a negative variance, that's the red. So how do we minimize those reds? And typically those negative variances are you've overspent

Let's assume labor. So if you're delivering a product, you're making a product, there are what's known as standard costs. That means what is the expected way of doing business? Now, if you overspend, that's a negative variance. And then when you look back, you go like, well, our margins are less. We're losing money because we are over servicing our customers, perhaps unnecessarily. Or

We're doing something incorrectly to what we thought we could do. Therefore, we're losing money on these products or the service. Right. Or there could be purely inefficiencies. know, we were we briefly started talking about this over the cup of coffee before we got started here around how there are so many systems from a software and technology perspective these days.

We're meant to be in industry 4 .0, right? And when we listen to conference speakers, when we listen to lot of presentations, if you read what's on LinkedIn and if you look at lot of business journals, the concepts like industry 4 .0, smart factories, it's making you believe that we almost live in a world from

Dylan Pathirana (13:23.672)
born identity or James Bond or minority report where you're wearing augmented reality and you're pulling reports, right? Of all the data. But the reality of factories and warehouses I walk into is far from that. We have multiple systems and the biggest issue is one system doesn't talk to the other. So you have people downloading data onto.

spreadsheets and you know, they don't know, you most people don't even have the capability to sort data or, or, you know, analyze data. And here we are that we are actually working for the computer. The computer is not working for us. We are working around the computer limitations. This is the world, you know, so we think we are smart in terms of utilizing systems, apps, technology.

But there are a lot of gaps in between. whether it is double handling products or services, or whether it is working around those limitations, or whether it is overspending on material or labor, they are the inefficiencies. And so it's the way I work is trying to build the capability in those businesses or people first.

can identify beyond the obvious points. But then most importantly, what do we do about it? Teaching people where the inefficiencies are alone is worse than not showing them at all. Because once you start seeing it, you see it everywhere and you're be more frustrated than you were before because now you just see everywhere. It's like that scene from...

the movie The Sixth Sense, you will probably have been too young to, you'd have been a little one back then, like it's the Bruce Willis and there's this kid, I think it got a lot of accolades for it. And this young kid sees dead people, right? So and there's this famous scene where you go like, I see dead people everywhere. And it's a little bit like that, I see inefficiencies everywhere. but then you have to give the systems and the processes.

Dylan Pathirana (15:37.666)
on how to improve. I can continue to talk for the whole one hour. This is very interesting. Very useful as well. So it's really about kind of opening people's eyes to the inefficiencies that are all around them. That's, that's number one. Yeah. And then how do we get, so the point number one is how do you identify? Yeah. And point number two is how do you go about helping those people to improve? And one of the biggest mistakes business leaders do.

is they take it onto their shoulders because it's their business and they are the leaders. Now we want to fix it for the people. And in doing so, we alienate the people because we are fixing it for the people. And one of the statements that I often share is that don't fix it for the people, fix it with the people. And what I mean by that is if you see

you know, let's continue with the kink metaphor. Here's a kink in the business. And it could be, I'm just gonna let's say, you got this line or this area of a warehouse or a factory. And that's the area that is the most inefficient. For whatever reason, you know that you can't process the expected rate of orders in a day, right? And people are complaining. So then,

Once you know the structured problem solving approach and there are many approaches or many, many frameworks, they all work. You just pick one and stick with it. And you set up a little cross -functional team and you enable them and you allow them to basically work through the structured approach and solve the issues.

And a lot of the times you don't need any more capital expenditure. You just need people to try a few different ways of, it's trial and error, I guess. And it's amazing what people come up with. And it's amazing how it helps people to be more engaged, proud of...

Dylan Pathirana (18:02.882)
the work that they have done, the contribution that they have given back. yeah, that's, I mean, end of the day, like we're working on process. But most important thing is people, right? Bringing them together, right to drive that process. Absolutely. And interesting, Ishan, I was at the book launch, your book, you were talking about the disengage. Yeah, right. That was really interesting. Can you share with us a bit more?

information on that. Yeah, yeah, certainly. And thank you for your support. yeah. And maybe, sorry, before that, let's talk about your books. Right. So this is your third book that you've written. Correct. Yes. And I guess you have a bit of a series. I do have a series. The first one is out of print at the moment. So it's going through a second edition iteration. The first book, I think, came out in around 2017.

What happens Dylan and Jem is I found that as businesses grow, there are many businesses and privately owned businesses where the top line grows and the bottom line goes the other way as a percentage. So the percentage growth, there are many ways of growing the business, but as the business become larger and larger, as a percentage, profitability goes down. Not always, but most of the time.

or many businesses. The reason is the complexity within the business grows faster than the top line. So the first book is, I think there are 10 paradigms, there are 10 paradigms in fact, on these hidden opportunities, hidden growth opportunities is the title of the book. And I share these 10 paradigms where to look at a business through a different lens.

because as a business grows, there comes a tipping point where I tell the business owners, it's time to wear the big pants. You're in high school now. You're not in primary school. So you're a big boy. So let's wear the big pants. And I think the business comes to a tipping point of going through, know, graduating from the primary to the high school. What I mean by that is a lot of the times, you know, some of the smaller businesses are going to work.

Dylan Pathirana (20:28.014)
You know, the the the sun is in the hot seat, you know, dad started and, you know, quite proudly and dad's not too far, right? You know, it's just right there making sure and the you know, they quite proudly they show look, you me and dad started in the garage and, you know, 30 years ago and, you know, 15 years later, we moved into this industrial apartment and here we are now in this factory, you know, and we've got all these people and multiple shifts.

And the issue is exactly that. The top line is growing, the bottom line is going the other way. But when I go into those factories, what I often see is a scaled up garage. It's a scaled up garage because the mindset is that's how we started. That's what gave us growth and that's what gave us the success. So let's continue. And you're perhaps a little bit like the captain of the Titanic where your experience is now working against you.

use the same formula. But there comes, know, you, I'm sure you've heard the phrase of what got you here ain't going to take you there. So there comes a tipping point. So the first book is about where are the, are those 10 paradigms? Opening the eyes to ways of improving productivity and, you know, sharpening the bottom line, you know, it's the money that's just bleeding through the business and, and just leaking out profitability. The second book advance is now

If you're interested and you go like, great. How do we go about it? It's a framework. So it's a DIY framework. And I'll talk through here's how to implement from my experience with those multinational companies. I've simplified it. And most of my work is actually embedding that framework. The third one, unlock, which we'll go into a little bit in detail is about, it's not the framework.

It's not the tools, the techniques, the templates, not technology for sure. It's the people. So no matter how wonderful your business processes are, your frameworks, you need them, but it's how you take your people through a journey or through growth phases. That's what's going to give you the biggest boost. So the third book is about if you have the framework, then how do you deploy it to take people through it? Excellent.

Dylan Pathirana (22:55.442)
And that the discussion that you had like in the book launch. Yeah. Yeah. The so interesting thing, right. And tell me if this rings true for you, either in your own business or businesses that you know of. In any business, apparently, and there's only a handful of people who are hardworking, diligent people, stars. Yeah, right. You know who these people are?

because they're the ones you always rely on to get projects done, to go and solve the problems. And if there are back orders, they're the ones who will push through. They're the ones who will come on over time and they're the ones who will make it work. And according to Gallup, there are people who measure anything and everything relating to employee engagement. They're known as, I guess, they're a global authority on employee engagement. So as per their latest data, so...

25%. I'm rounding up the numbers is the engaged percentage. So one in four is what you've got. You also got 15 % of people who are extremely unhappy, extremely disgruntled and disenchanted. In case you're wondering who these people are, right? You know, if you sit next to these people in the canteen with a cup of tea or coffee,

you'd feel like after five minutes you want to get a pen goal because right the the whole world is out to get negative these people and nothing's going right for these people and right but they seem to have a solution for everything though. So yeah, there's about 15 % of those people. Now if you've done the math, there's a 60 % left. Right. So you know who your good people are, you know who they're disenchanted are the ones you didn't think of.

what's categorized as disengaged. 60%. 60%, give or take, right, 60%. And Gallup categorizes them as disengaged. Now what I know of this category is that they're not disengaged. So over my 25 years of improving productivity,

Dylan Pathirana (25:17.602)
What I realized is that these fence cities, sometimes we call them their quiet quitters, because they just give up or they just stay quiet. But they love to get involved. So the trick is not always trying to rely on your hardworking, diligent people, because you're at the risk of burning them out, overwhelming them or exhausting them.

become a disengaged fence sitter. So you've got to get more people. And now, know, particularly, know, well, particularly now, it's so hard to get good people. So there's this shortage of good people, right? So you've got to get the best of your teams. And the only way is to tap into this fence sitters, because I know they they

they're only seemingly disengaged. I'll give you an example. 10 years ago, I was working and helping this factory in South Africa. And their biggest issue was that their lines were constrained, so they had issues and they couldn't manufacture as much as they could. So they had kinks in their factory. And we wanted to undo some of those kinks. So we identified which part.

of the factory and the line that was the biggest issue. And I coach some of the people and I build the capability and say, right, let's try to solve some of these problems. One of the steps is to go and talk to as many people in that area. So there's no point talking to everyone and anyone. So we run focus groups.

for the different shifts, the different operators, you bring them in and you ask certain questions around, you what's frustrating them, what's stopping them, you know, what's stopping, you know, how do we get another 10%, et cetera. Sam was one of the best operators in this business. Everybody, so from a leadership perspective knew that Sam...

Dylan Pathirana (27:36.13)
You know, we call them the gun operators, right? Because they're like the machine whisperers, you know, they come and touch, you know, they just fix a few things and all of a sudden the machine is running so much better. The problem was that Sam was a quiet quitter. Sam was a fence sitter. And the business leaders were quite disappointed. times, you know, they're the ones that we think that, you why do they just turn up in body only? Why don't they, you know, they just leave the brains behind, right? Is how we think.

So we were always talking about, you know, Sam has so much potential, why isn't he, you know, sharing his insights, etc. So here we, here was Sam, that we had brought him in to a specific focus group. And I was just observing from the back of the room and the team leader that I had coached was doing her part, you know, and doing a brainstorming. So the session ended, they all walked out and I just walked up to the...

whiteboard and I was just analyzing the answers that they had come up with and trying to categorize them in a meaningful way. And when I saw the team leader running towards me, I just yelled, Ishan, Ishan, and he came and grabbed my hand and I knew something was not right. So what's going on? Sam spoke to me. And I'm like, unless this is one of those moments like in Forrest Gump,

You know, where Forrest Gump, you know, breaks silence after, you know, and, you know, everybody thought that he was dumb and he wasn't dumb. you're like, you know, unless it's one of those moments I'm like, Sam spoke. Yeah. What's because I wasn't privy to all the information about Sam up until that point. I said, what did Sam say? Sam said, no one for 17 years had asked for my opinion.

So you know who your good people are, you know who they're disenchanted are. The ones you didn't think of, what's categorized as disengaged. 60%. 60%. Give or take. Yeah. Right. Is the, you know, Simon Sinek's book, right? Yeah. He's one of those people. The other operators looked up to Sam because he's the experienced one and he's the expert and he's been there for 17 years. So

Dylan Pathirana (29:54.626)
That was the moment that we re -engaged Sam and he was part of the group and we did so much more and that wasn't the only thing. Of course, we fixed a lot of the little issues from a machine perspective and we touched on a lot of the processes and in about two months that line turned around its performance. It was like night and day. And I can share so many other stories.

And it's always comes down to that. How do you engage the people in that area? And not just to ask, what can we do? Right. But you're doing it purposely. You're doing it in a structured way and the people love it. Sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to jump on quickly and say a massive thank you for all of the support so far. But I also wanted to ask a favor of you guys.

We want this podcast to reach as many people as possible so that we can share all of the incredible learnings that we've had so far. But in order for us to do that, we need to grow our following to beat the algorithms. But the good news is, however, there is one simple thing that you can do to help us reach that goal. So I ask you if you could please follow or subscribe to us on whatever channel you're listening to this on.

It'll help us grow the channel, which means we can get on bigger and better guests for you guys. And with that, back to the episode. And I want to ask you and get your perspective on something. Do you think it's becoming more important for businesses to focus on this now? Because you said, you mentioned Sam had been there for 17 years. Now that's becoming an absolute rarity. People who are unhappy in their jobs are changing more and more rapidly.

It's very rare nowadays that you see, especially people in my generation, staying in jobs if they're not happy for more than two or three years. Yeah. So do you think engaging with your employees is becoming a greater factor for companies? It always is. And I'm of course biased because that's what I do and that's what I help businesses to do. But it'd be interesting to if I flip the question back onto you, Dylan. So let's

Dylan Pathirana (32:22.218)
Let's say that there is a business that you join. Yeah. Where the culture is that I mean, there are there there's always opportunities to improve. There are always inefficiencies in businesses. So, you know, there isn't a company that you go to. Yeah, right. But if the culture is such that people are happy, people are willing to

get together and solve these problems. And the business loves people to step away from the line or the work area, be it on overtime or, you know, come in on a Saturday or whatever it is. But people are willing, people are happy, and they know how to look for inefficiencies. They know how to improve inefficiencies and make things better for themselves. If it is one of those businesses that you join. So there's a question coming your way.

And let's say that, yeah, look, the pay is, you know, okay. Right. Let's say 60 to 70th percentile pay. Right. So how would that make you feel? Because I honestly don't know how the latest generations think and feel. And would that be enough to keep you involved or engaged and in the business? What else would you be looking for?

I'm thinking of a very specific example. So for me, didn't pay you enough. I didn't hire him yet. That was a point coming from a renewable energy background. Yeah. I was thinking about, okay, I could either go down this path where I could go to the mines, for example, incredible salaries, right? But it is a very, very tough work environment. Yep. Or I could go down a pathway. It's more learning good.

community and kind of development path, less salary. And I think that's kind of coming to your point. I ended up choosing the path of growth and development. And I think that's, I suppose that's how I would answer your question. I think culture definitely plays a big part of it. And if I had have chased a salary, it would have been for an incredibly short period. And I think that's

Dylan Pathirana (34:47.198)
something that's common. And I talked to my friends about this. yeah, I might go and work in the mines for one or two years just to, you know, get this massive salary, but it's not a long term thing. So I think it's kind of a timing related as well. It is isn't it? Jam, you've got a lot of employees in your business and I'm sure you're seeing a generational gap. What are you seeing? No, yeah, so

I actually have a question before I answer you. mean, do you think people also want to hear as what Sam example, people want to be valued, right? Because if they don't feel like they've been valued in the organization, I see that throughout my journey as well. That's a really important thing, more than money.

We all know, right? Most people leave their work not because of money. Number one factor I heard is like their boss. They don't like their boss. They direct a report. so I think people wanted to really engage and provide that value to the business. But if the employer not willing to listen,

That's that play a big part for them to change their mind. I see through years working with many people. Yeah, that's probably the number one thing that I see. Absolutely. Because what drives us and there's a common thread between what the two of you said. It's about what lights you up internally. That's what drives, right? Which is uncommon for...

someone of your generation, Dylan. So I really applaud the fact that you were able to tap into that early on, right? Because these are kind of the things that, you know, when you turn 40, you know, kind of, well, it is, right? Because as we grow and mature, there comes a point of, know, asking those questions of the meaning of life and the purpose of, you know, what am I here to contribute and all of it. you know, I'm delighted to hear that you started your

Dylan Pathirana (37:14.178)
quest for success. that conversation too, I didn't really answer that question. One thing that I see with the younger generation, know, everything going now, they want it now, right? They don't have that patient to wait for a year or so. Very rarely someone said, hey, I'm going to work here for two years to learn. You know, that's my number one priority. They do, but they want to have a quick win. I mean,

Dylan is a great example. He thought, well, he went to Stanford and he learned great stuff, coming and doing his own thing overnight. He's going to become a millionaire. then he realized that's not the case. You know, when you're running your business, it requires a time for you to grow. So that realization, sometimes, know, the current generation, they're not willing to accept that. if they don't feel like, well,

I need to put effort and time into something. I'll find some other option because there are plenty of options out there. that's something that I see. Do you think that's just immaturity? Do you not think that you were the same when you were young? Yes and no. We didn't have much options available when we were young. Right. I think what's happened. And this is my opinion on that. I'm not an expert into this area. I think what's happened is as

software and technology has obviously improved and you know, we've got everything on our palm these days. What's happened is we see a lot of news, I there's two things. One is because there's so much information coming to us, there is the impatience or there is the what's it called like the what gets your attention, right? You know, that attention span is continuously reducing.

So there's that. The second thing is the stories we hear, whether it is Airbnb, whether it is Uber or most recently Air Trunk, we hear these great stories. the mega success that these stories and we think they're an overnight success because we only hear about them at the point of being successful.

Dylan Pathirana (39:35.278)
But not many would know for seven years Airbnb were rolling on credit cards nearly being broke. But that persistence, the patience and your belief of that this is going to work is what's going to actually give you that success. Yeah, we all think that, you know, as a 17 year old, I can learn to code and I can come up with an app and you know,

one of the tech companies going to buy for millions or billions, perhaps. And that's it. My life sorted is the mindset that's been fed through, you know, the news feeds that's coming at you. Reality is far from it. Yeah. And I think there's, there's a great quote from Elon Musk and someone's interviewing him and he says, you everyone wants to have my life. Right. Everyone says they want to be me.

But then you can see it in his eyes. He kind of turns and he says, but people shouldn't, you know, I sleep in the factory. I'm working so long. I don't spend time with my family. And it's exactly to your point. We only see the positive side. look, Elon Musk, look how much money he has. You don't see the behind the scenes. The grind. Yeah, the struggle that goes into it as well. And I think that.

kind of nicely comes back to a 360 point of what the success looks like. So if you hang your hat on success is the, you know, the eight figure salary, boy, boy, then well, good on you, you know, if that's gonna drive you and if you think you're gonna be able to do good for the world, certainly there are a lot of things that we can do with money, you know, helping the needy and the causes.

to get to that point, you say, is hard. Yeah, absolutely. And on that, I, there's so many things that you talk about in terms of people and processes. If you were a young person today, what do you think is the most valuable skill that you should be developing? Mindset.

Dylan Pathirana (41:52.342)
mindset of self -belief, believing in yourself. And I don't know how this would play from an employee perspective, but certainly, know, crossing the bridge or, you know, turning, you know, or sitting on the other side of the table as an entrepreneur. One of the biggest hurdles we face, you know, even to make the decision of should I, shouldn't I?

becoming an entrepreneur is the self doubt. And, you know, what's the, the imposter syndrome. I was at a conference 2016. So this is the year after that I had set up my practice and I had barely been in business for 12 months. And one of the good mentors that I was

you who was helping me said, Ishan, there's a workshop for entrepreneurs. I'm going and you're coming with me like $2 ,000. And I'm like, what? So you're coming. And it was one of these American gurus, Alan Wise. There are a lot of books written by Alan Wise and he's a successful business coach. And he's also an entrepreneur. He helps businesses, but he also helps individuals to become business coaches.

So he was in Sydney and he was running a two day workshop. And here I was, you know, trying to learn and, you know, take notes and as and absorb as much as I could. When I went there, there would have been about 40 people. And here I was in a table of eight or 10 people with five, eight, 10 plus years of running their own businesses. And on day one, and I thought I had hit jackpot.

all these successful entrepreneurs and I thought, my God, you I was the young kid on the block, right? I was not even 12 months. And I thought I was just rubbing shoulders and like, great. As the day progressed, and particularly into the second day, I think the shield started coming down, people started opening up. And what I could hear was even after five, eight, 10 plus years, still the fear of failure.

Dylan Pathirana (44:22.092)
That imposter syndrome, no matter how knowledgeable I am, we still think we are not good enough. So working on the mindset, I could go back and, you know, that's one that perhaps would have helped me to fast track even more or, you know, be in a different place. But I'm consciously aware of it and I spend more time.

working on the mindset and kind of personal productivity than in the business. On that note, can we go back to your childhood? Take us through your journey. Because what we realized, part of this discussion, most of the people that we talked to, we went through their journey just to understand how they become today, that journey through. So if you can take us through

How did you start like your childhood? Yeah, well in 1970, no, you don't want me to go. That's all right. Yeah. Happy to happy to listen to you. So I was born and bred in Sri Lanka. Yeah. Right. I you know, was born into a, I guess what we would classify as upper middle class. You know, my parents are not uber rich, but

They had enough to... Very comfortable life. My dad's story is, you know, I didn't realize at the time, but you know, he's what I would consider as a self -made millionaire. know, he's a self -made man. It's a real rags to riches, but not through an entrepreneurial perspective, but from...

you know, employed and being a senior leader in business. More entrepreneurial. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But he went through a lot of hardships and pretty much supported his family, know, parents and siblings and and put himself through education and absolute, you know, the more I learn, you know, like like you, Jam, you know, you're inspired by your father, I know of.

Dylan Pathirana (46:41.484)
listen to bits and pieces of that episode. I want to go back and listen to that episode. So I'm inspired by my dad. I was fortunate enough through the hard work that my dad had done because he went to the Middle East in the 80s and he worked in countries like Oman and Dubai and Dubai was pretty much the desert. know, before Dubai became Dubai that we know of and I've seen that Dubai.

of what it is, what it was before. yeah, so my dad wanted to give me the education that he never had. He wanted to help me so that I wouldn't have to struggle. So I was the lucky one who got to go to a private school in Sri Lanka. And I was just enjoying life. You know, I could say that

what's the phrase, you know, with the silver spoon in the mouth. I did not feel any discomfort. I, you know, and of course, living, going to a private school, you know, it's one of those elite schools and you're mixed with, you know, the top 5 % of people, you know, in Sri Lanka, in Colombo.

So with that mindset, of course, I'm growing up thinking that, yeah, you know, like the Western capitalists and, you know, that mindset, but I'm able to contrast in Sri Lanka because you see the village life, you see the have -nots, you see the duality in life of, you know, you can go to a restaurant and have a meal and step out and there's a beggar who hadn't probably eaten.

for number of meals. despite having lived this upper middle class family, I was still grounded. You know, I went to Sunday school and lived that Buddhist life. So I feel like I lived a grounded but perhaps a little bit more biased towards the Western life. I always wanted to be a pilot from this more.

Dylan Pathirana (49:02.814)
And it wasn't just a childhood dream, like most children say, I want to be a fireman or I want to be a policeman. But no, I stayed with that dream all along. There's something, I don't know, I feel like I must have been a pilot or something in my previous life. I feel really connected to aviation and I really wanted to be a pilot all the way along. And there came that point of...

after my high school in Sri Lanka. So my father wanted to send me overseas for my higher education as his way of supporting me to continue my development. He asked me what I wanted to do. Now I could have just as well said send me to flying school and help me get my commercial license. He would have because that was the one thing that I stayed consistent.

from as far as I can remember. I want to be a In fact, even to this day, when I get on a plane, the hair on the back of my neck stands up. Before 9 -11, I used to go to the cockpit often. I have a yarn with the pilot. I still go to the cockpit, but they only allow before while the plane is on the ground. So this, I love it.

watch every episode of Air Crash Investigations. My only disappointment is they don't show it in the plane. Yeah, so that was my passion. But for some reason, I said, I want to study engineering and I came to Australia to University of New South Wales. And I enrolled in aviation engineering or aeronautical engineering. Four year course and the first two years are

the basic engineering. So as I was going through this, and I started to realize, well, I'm studying aeronautical engineering. And I'm here on a student visa, which means at the end, I'm going back to Sri Lanka. What am I going to do? There's only the Sri Lankan airlines probably have, I don't know, 11, 12 aircraft.

Dylan Pathirana (51:23.436)
Yeah, there aren't many opportunities. So the pennies started to drop going like, something's not adding up. Around the same time, UNSW, the New South Wales University brought in a new discipline called mechatronics. And that's the combination of mechanical and electronics. So I thought that sounds good to me. Sounds like the future. So I put my hand up along with a few other students and yeah, we were the first batch to go through that.

So I studied mechatronics, robotics and automation. So despite the fact that I look into people and processes, I'm not anti -technology. I come from that world, but I see the disconnect. But one thing that might be of interest is at the age of 16, I was an entrepreneur. What did you do? Photography was my hobby.

And I so I got a good SLR. So not DSLR. I got a good Nikon SLR camera with a good lens and got good gear. Again being, you know, I get spoiled or but I was serious about it, you know, ask my parents and you know, think one of my significant birthdays, they said, okay, if you're that serious, then we'll get you that. So I used to do birthdays and I didn't do weddings.

But engagements and birthdays and, know, all the things that people wanted photography, you know, and it wasn't as common as these days to have photography, right? have film and you have to get it processed and it's, it's, it's an art. So, yeah, so I, I did that as a hobby and, I was earning quite a decent, know, side income. Nice. Yeah. That's really interesting. And I want to know what.

made you go from engineering into more the people the people side. Well, day one, I can tell you what what happened. As I was in third year university, there was this little advert on the university news board. And those days because there is no Google there is no I don't know whatever you know there there's no Facebook to advertise and it's the old fashioned notice board and

Dylan Pathirana (53:46.894)
back in the day, like there's a printed sheet of paper with little pieces cut out. So you just rip out one of the numbers and you that's the number to call. And if you didn't have a phone at home, then it's the little coin phone by the roadside with, know, Telstra. You call, right? This is 1997, my third year at uni. And there was an advert for a summer student to come and do some work.

We had to do 60 days of work experience as part of the course. So I thought, well, just go and see what this is about. And it was a company that was manufacturing aluminum windows and doors in Brookvale. So that's Northern Beaches. And they said, yeah, come on in. And long story short, I got the job. So I got a summertime job. Now 1997, three years before Sydney Olympics.

The housing market was going crazy. Well, everything was going crazy, right? We getting so excited, know, getting ready for the Olympics. This company was the third biggest privately owned Windows and Doors company. So it's not a little backyard operation. It's a massive company. They could not keep up. The company was growing. And my job was to help the operations manager to improve productivity in the business.

That's how I got in. And he was telling me, know, Ishaan, I'll give you a few tips. You just help me collect the data and all of it. Now, one of the things I remember he said, first two weeks, you're working in the factory. I'm like, what? He you're working in the factory. You go to the window line and you work there as an operator. know, obviously they, you know, showed me, just be careful with the glass because you know, all the protective stuff.

And I did not understand, you know, and he said, look, if you what did he say, Paul Martin, and I dedicated this third book to Paul Martin, unfortunately, passed away in his mid 50s due to cancer. So it's a lovely man. So Paul said, if you if you listen, you forget. If you look, you remember.

Dylan Pathirana (56:18.154)
If you do, you understand.

I that. Right. So said, I want you to do go and do the doing in the window line and you will understand. So I'm like, okay, I understand. so that's how I got into. And, here I was the robotics engineer who went in to this business. The most sophisticated piece of kit they had in this business was an electric drop saw.

Cutting it. You make that horrible noise. You know, as you cut the aluminium, you know, the six meter length. Everything else was put together. 150 people in that factory. Pneumatic presses, pneumatic screw guns, rivet guns. It was all handcrafted, shall we say. So back in the day, you know,

you know, these are factory employees, right? know, most of them are tattooed. Every sentence started with F this and finished with an F that, know? And here they were, you know, nailing the window to the timber and, you know, and all of a sudden the right hand would move faster than the left hand. So they would accidentally staple the hand to the timber.

and they would just put the gun down, take the pliers, pull the nail out and they would continue to work. know, &S had a different perspective. So that's the environment I went into. So straight from studying robotics and C +, and all these programming robots into the world of improving productivity by working with the people.

Dylan Pathirana (58:12.682)
understanding their frustrations, and then again involving them to improve productivity. And so I guess I kind of fell into it. And then I just realized no matter how much automation there is, no matter how much software applications or technology we put in, there are still people interacting with, you know, pressing buttons, moving things, doing that.

So that's how I fell into it. And all the way through, you know, I worked for Arnott's Biscuits and I worked for Kellogg, you know, highly automated multinational companies. And guess what? You still have people. And the faster you run those machines, when things go wrong, the harder you fall, right? Because one thing I do know of highly automated high speed lines is there's not a lot of buffer between machinery.

So if one stops, you got two or three minutes to react or to deal with. And there comes that strategic thinking of operators of how to solve those problems. And if they don't know that you better open the dump gates and everything's just going into the bin. So, yeah, so people, your biggest asset. Absolutely. And I suppose on that point, I know you do a little bit of coaching as well. And considering people are so core,

to businesses, leadership is also another important part. Is there anything that you think stands out from that makes a good leader and a great leader? Like what makes the great leader?

Dylan Pathirana (59:57.326)
Simple question. And I think when you look back into all the books that's been written on the topic of leadership, I think it always boils down to a few things as to what good leaders and great leaders are, right?

I think the great leaders are the ones who are humble enough to listen to the people, humble enough to know that they don't have all the answers, but courageous enough to know that they can lead people. Now what leading is to give people the confidence that I've got this, to inspire people that I'm going to make it better, but at the same time to be humble enough to know

I really don't know how to get there, but I know we will if we work together. Anyone who can make people feel that I think is a great leader. And I've had the privilege to work with a few of such leaders that I've captured in the new book as well. That's excellent. mean, we could talk all day about productivity and leadership and process improvement, but we.

We've just cracked an hour and I'm mindful of the time. And so I want to take you back throughout this journey and looking backwards on it. Do you feel successful?

Dylan Pathirana (01:01:37.048)
Wow.

Dylan Pathirana (01:01:46.706)
It's a tough question. If we were having this conversation 30 years ago, I would feel like, yeah, here I am crossing the borders from Sri Lanka, coming here as a student. there's yep, looking forward to something different, something new.

And if you are having this conversation 20 years ago, then we'd be at a point of me just leaving that first, you the windows business into the FMCG. So again, there's something new that's just looking forward to. Certainly 10 years ago was probably the biggest step of, living, know, cutting the, employee umbilical cord and stepping into the entrepreneur real world.

I'm setting up my practice. So there's something that I'm looking forward to. And this year is my 10th year of being an employee of running my own practice. And I feel like I've only just started to get a handle of what this business is all about. So I feel I'm ready for that next phase of what do I do and what do I provide? And then certainly as my two young boys are, you know,

Well, the second one is almost an adult, 17 and a half, and the older one is 20. So I'm at that pivotal point of, right, I've had these milestone moments of creating my own success.

And success is that, you know, what goals do you set so that it drives you, it energizes you, and it allows you to be a better person, a bigger person, a bigger person from, you know, the way that you can influence and do more to the world. Yeah, I feel like having lived all those

Dylan Pathirana (01:04:02.378)
decades, always being driven, always looking forward to something bigger, is a successful life. I agree with you. I like the way that you put it. So you, you think success is more like a journey, right? So, and, you divide that journey into like decades. So you, you're kind of setting the next decade. Right. Yeah. For your success journey. Yeah.

Yeah, and it always is a journey, isn't it? And you know, we say that life's a journey and you know, don't forget to smell the roses. And it's so important because when you are an entrepreneur, weekdays, weekends don't mean much. Public holidays don't mean anything because it's another day that you can work and you can. so switching on and switching off is something that you've got to do mindfully. yeah.

Absolutely, it is a journey. I read this book and I we are kind of coming to a wrapping up point and I think this is probably a way of wrapping up what I have to say. And I forget this book. It was written by a footy coach.

I'm a bit embarrassed because I should remember the name and I'll do my best. Maybe I'll share it. can put it into the into the notes. He started. He was a footy coach who was terminally ill and he only had weeks, perhaps months to live. So he wanted to write a letter for his unborn grandson.

And the letter he started to write ended up being a book about that thing and you know, that big. And on the back of the book, he says that life in reverse makes perfect sense.

Dylan Pathirana (01:06:06.04)
But unfortunately you have to live it in forwards. I understand my life because I don't have any more forwards left.

is what he said and I thought that was quite profound. You what we all go through, these turbulences and turmoil and all success, you know, we are living in forwards, you know, but it only kind of makes sense in backwards because some of these hard chips that you have to go through sometimes is there for a reason, you know, it's to give you the growth, to give you the learning and if you haven't...

being humble or open enough to take those learnings, then I think you've lost the plot. So I think that's a great way to very powerful. Yeah. Job says the same thing. You can only connect the dots looking backwards. Right. Right. Yeah. Totally agree with that. And I suppose to wrap this conversation up, I have been jotting down a few things, which I think contribute to your success, your successful wife. And I think the first one that I've got is

You push boundaries and in your definition of success, said you like to make stretch goals. And I think that is something that's very common amongst entrepreneurs as well is always trying to be better and push the boundary and go more. And I, especially in your field, trying to process improvement. If you just stayed inside the box, you would maybe get a percentage improvement.

But by pushing the boundaries, can really, really maximize and get the most. And that leads me to my next one. You're very much an engineer. come, you look at things with the optimization mindset. And I think, I think you see it a lot in businesses. Engineers make up quite a high percentage of business leaders because they have this kind of mindset. They look at things very structured and strategically.

Dylan Pathirana (01:08:10.446)
And how do we optimize and from a life perspective as well, how do we improve 1 % better every day as James Clear says. And then the other one that I have is proactive. think when you were talking about going into these companies, sitting people down, having conversations, you're kind of doing the stuff that no one else really wants to do. People know that they need to talk to their employees. People know.

some of these strategies, but you don't just talk the talk, you get in and actually walk the walk and help these people walk through that process. And I think by doing that, doing the nitty gritty, doing the hard work, you're actually developing these, these companies. And I think that's a great aspect. And then the last one, which for me is definitely the biggest one is you are an exceptional communicator.

you distilled some very complex topics into really simple, easy to understand things. And I think that's becoming something which is few and far between. And I think that shows when someone really understands what they're talking about, they have a deep knowledge, they can explain it incredibly simply. And you did it through storytelling as well, which is excellent. So they're the kind of high level things which I think have led to your

your successful life and I'm really grateful for you coming on and sharing some of your wisdom with us today. was, it's been incredibly insightful for me. I've taken quite a few notes. So thank you so much. It's been great. You're very welcome. And I've never had anyone, you know, kind of repeat my life backwards. It's almost like it's like one of those 60 minutes or it's your life kind of episodes, right? So I'm, I'm touched. I'm touched by someone.

Again, you know, very young, but who has got that depth to understand analyze and to kind of put it back in a words, almost on the fly. So thank you. Loved it. And if people want to find out more about what you do or find your books, where can they find more information? I can give a URL, but if I say my name, that's going to be hard, particularly if people are listening to this on the go. I think my latest book is perhaps the one that

Dylan Pathirana (01:10:36.19)
I'm really proud of because it connects to lot of businesses, even outside of manufacturing or logistics. So unlockbook .com .au. unlockbook .com .au. If you go there, you land on the book page, but from there you can navigate back to the homepage and read more about myself and what I do and everything else. Perfect. We'll have a link down to that in the show notes below. Ishan, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been wonderful.

And for those listening, if you could do us a massive favor and subscribe or follow us on whatever platform you're listening to this on. And also head over to our website, thequestforsuccesspodcast .com and do our success survey because we want to hear what success means to you guys. And on that note, we will catch you guys in the next episode. Thank you very much. Thank you, Sean. Thank you.