The Key to Growth is Rooted in Values - Luke Harris

In this episode of The Quest for Success Podcast, we are joined by Luke Harris, Co-CEO of Harris Farm Markets, as he shares his unique perspective on success, family dynamics, and the experiences that have shaped his life. Luke reflects on his upbringing, the role of community, and the lessons learned from both personal and professional challenges.

Luke discusses the holistic nature of success, which goes beyond financial achievement to include personal happiness, family well-being, and business success. He offers valuable insights into the complexities of working in a family business, emphasising the importance of trust and managing egos among siblings to maintain harmony and growth.

We explore the importance of core values, mentorship, and the balance between work and family life. The conversation also touches on the need for community engagement and innovation to stay competitive in a rapidly changing market.

If you’re interested in the dynamics of family-run businesses, personal growth, or redefining success, this episode offers a wealth of valuable takeaways!

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Transcript

Dylan Pathirana (00:00.096)
When business is good, you have friends everywhere. When business is bad, you really know who your friends are. One the things that Harris Farming is, is doing more with less and smashing it out today. Our mission, if our purpose is the greatest goodness, our mission is to be the most loved fresh food retailer in the eastern states of Australia. For me to be a better father, I've just got to be better than an iPad, which isn't that hard. I learnt that life...

isn't fair, but you can always make it fair in the long run for yourself.

Dylan Pathirana (00:47.054)
All right, welcome back to the Quest for Success podcast and thank you so much for tuning in once again. We are incredibly excited for today's episode because we're joined by none other than Luke Harris. Luke, thanks for joining us. No worries, guys. Pleasure to be here. Yeah. So Luke is the CEO of Harris Farms. Co-CEO. Co-CEO of Harris Farms and one of our favorite fresh food place that we normally go to.

I met Luke only two years ago at Harvard Business School. are studying together. Even before then, Harris Farm used to be one of our favorite places. When I realized Luke's in the course, I was really excited to meet him. And now we know each other very well and I consider him as one of my good mates. And thanks Luke for joining us. My pleasure. I definitely see you as one of my good mates now too, Jam. It's been a real great relationship builder, this course. Thank you. Thanks.

yeah, I remember when, jam got back from Harvard after the first year, I remember him saying the first person he was talking about was like, you'll never guess who I met. I Luke Harris. And I was like, Luke Harris is like Harris farms. And I was like, wow. so look, we're really excited to, dive in and have a bit of a chat, but to start this conversation off, we really need to kind of get your definition of the core of what we're talking about, which is success. So I want to ask you, what does success mean to you?

Sleeping eight hours a night, how about that?

Success to me is such a wholesome word. You have to have success in so many different areas to have success realistically. You've got to have success, most importantly, think with yourself. You've got to be happy with yourself and be happy with where you're at. I think definitely your family. Family is so important.

Dylan Pathirana (02:52.842)
As my mum always says to me, you're always as unhappy as your unhappiest child. And so I think the success of your family is always very important too. Then there's business. Business and business is in so many ways. Is it how much money you make? Is it the brand value? Is it what your business gives back to the community? I think it's nearly impossible to say what is success.

And then this course of, you know, how is your community going as a whole too? I'm a big fan of community as a whole as well. So success in the community, success in the family, and most importantly, success within yourself. I think that's a very holistic definition. I really like that. And you touched there on family. And I think that's a big aspect. And what we've heard throughout discussions is a lot of people's

kind of definitions and also life has been shaped by their early years. So I'd like to go back to your early years. Young Luke growing up in the Harris family, can you take us back to those days and talk us through a little bit of your early life? I had a blessed upbringing, absolute blessed upbringing. I had my mum and dad who are still alive today. I've got my four brothers who are still alive today, but there was five boys.

close-knit, six and a half years between the five of us living on a 25-acre market farm out at Round Corner, Gerald. And we had, you know, 100 acres of state bush next door to us. We had the 25 acres, we had a dam, we had a swimming pool. We went to the local public school. We had all our friends surrounding us and so forth. It was such a beautiful, natural...

upbringing. My father was very successful. You know, we traveled. I remember going to skiing in Disneyland when I was 11 or something, traveling to India, which was a huge, had a huge impact on my life, but also my brother's life and my whole family's life traveling to India. You know, we went to good schools. We were close. My mother and my father always worked extremely hard.

Dylan Pathirana (05:17.08)
They were real, they were really a great role model when it came to that. My dad used to go to the markets at 2 a.m. So there's a newspaper article about when my father was arrested for speeding on his bike and strapped to the back was me. But it was just, it was a beautiful, beautiful upbringing. It was extremely competitive. You can imagine having the five brothers.

My mom has so much courage, so much heart, and she was tough like us. It was blessed but tough. You know what I mean? We always fought hard, we rumbled, we'd push each other off our BMX bikes. I remember my brother riding me into a barbed wire fence and I slashed my throat. But that never really bothered us. But it was definitely, so we did have this

very kind of, know, I think the best way to describe it, bit of toxic masculinity in the house, which was probably not the greatest. didn't dislike it, but you know, looking back on it now, if there was one thing I would change is to try to take away bit of that toxic masculinity we had in the house as five boys and you know, a strong dad and, and so forth. But, but it was apart from that, it was absolutely blessed. And you mentioned that,

you had a trip to India and it was really transformative for you. Yeah. Can you tell us why it was so transformative? Well, I think, you know, in India, India back in the in the 80s were very different to where India was today. I haven't been for a long time, so I can't really comment on what it's like today. But, you know, just just being aware that there were cities of poor people, you know, living in Calcutta.

Yeah, the world is not equal. The world is definitely not equal. As I say, we were living in round-cornered dural on a farm and a swimming pool, and there was definitely people who weren't as well off as us. Once again, my father was a successful businessman, and we kind of knew where we sat in the local area.

Dylan Pathirana (07:42.882)
Compared to the rest of the world, going to India was like, wow, the world is different. And we are lucky. we are lucky. And so coming back from that trip, what changed?

It was probably too young, know, so I was, I actually had my 12th birthday over there. I remember I got a, I got a year's collection of mad magazines from some, I think it was Jodhpur airport or something like that. was my, and, but it was, it was, I think it was this idea that

how blessed we were to be living in Australia, to have this upbringing that we have in Australia and so forth. And that's always still played a big part of my life to this day that we are lucky. It doesn't matter, know what mean? It doesn't matter, whichever way you look at it, there's people who do it far tougher. I think, how has that changed me? I believe nothing is ever too bad.

where we are. Nothing is ever too bad where we are. You know what mean? My father went bankrupt when I was, just three or four years later, we went bankrupt and that was definitely not the end of the world for us. It definitely wasn't the end of the world for us. was just one of the life cycles that we had. It wasn't fantastic. And many of my father, I'm sure, would wish that hadn't gone bankrupt.

My brothers and I often talk about it now in a positive mindset when we talk about, you know, it brought us close together. We knew who our friends were, you know, because, you know, when all of a sudden, you know, you know, when business is good, you have friends everywhere. When business is bad, you really know who your friends are. friends. Yeah. What's important to you? You know, was that, you know, was that overseas? Was the boat that important? No, not really. You know what mean? What was important was your family was your friends.

Dylan Pathirana (09:44.718)
there's food on the table and so forth. that was, that was, and I think that definitely helped. If we hadn't gone to India, would have that have been so easy? I don't think so. But we, we always used to sit there and say, we're luckier than those poor people in the slums of Calcutta. know, and we often talk about that. Sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to jump on quickly and say a massive thank you for all of the support so far. But I also wanted to ask a favor of you guys.

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It'll help us grow the channel, which means we can get on bigger and better guests for you guys. And with that, back to the episode. Luke, you're out of five boys. You're the middle one. Okay. Yeah. And so you kind of born to this business, Farms. Yeah. So your dad started before. My father started in 1971. My mother and father started in 1971. All right. Yeah.

and then you were born to the business. was born into the business, That's all you've seen, all your life. What was your dad doing before?

One of our taglines in our business is we're the fourth generation meat merchants, my brother's and So my grandfather, he had two businesses. He had a chicken processing factory and butcher shops. my grandfather, the chicken processing business just got to a start. It wasn't like today where you can go out and they don't have private banks. You can't go to...

Dylan Pathirana (11:49.902)
Commonwealth private and say, Lennon's, know, $50 million to put in the, you know, a new facility to upgrade to where we got to and so forth. And his business got to a certain size. My grandfather's business got to a certain size and he ended up selling it to George Western Foods. And my father was working for him at this stage. He was only 21. He wasn't very old. 23, he must've been. He was born in 1948. And he goes to my grandfather.

what am I gonna do now? You just sold the business underneath me. And he said, son, do one of these three, do something that involves these three parts of the business. Do something that the big boys don't do well. And back then, Coles and Woolworths hardly sold any fruit and vegetables. Do something with a low capital startup so I can help you get into it. And most importantly, follow this third rule.

do something that has lots of cash. And back then fruit shops were all cash. Funnily enough during COVID, we were the first business to cut the cash, you know. My dad was a bit of a tear to his eye. goes, come on, that wasn't how we used to do things, you know. No, that's not true. But yeah. Yeah. And so my father went out and investigated. And he came back and he came back to my mom and said, I've got

two great ideas. One of them is fruit markets and the other one is undertaking. And my mother gave him a choice of one. Yeah. Which was fruit shops. But your mom's coming from an academic background, right? No, no. My mom, funnily enough, my mom, she was the first female graduate at the University of New South Wales. All right. For marketing, marketing commerce. Wow. She's definitely not.

And she's not great in academics. She's like, so some lots of my brothers and myself and my mom have, were pretty constrained by dyslexia, which we don't know. Is it a curse or is it a blessing? Sometimes it's bit of both. but she, and, know, she is now, she is now a, you know, she's an honorary honorary doctor of the university of New South Wales and so forth, but she was working, she was working at Christ brothers.

Dylan Pathirana (14:15.072)
Yeah, yeah. And so the whole idea was dad went in and to understand what was involved with the Flemington markets and buying in the whole back then it was actually Haymarket near Chinatown. What was involved with the buying and selling of fruit and vegetables and mum was learning all what to do with the retailing side of the business working for Grace Brothers.

And, and, and then she got pregnant and they fired her in the spot. Didn't fire her in the spot. Okay. He said, well done. Congratulations. But that's the end of the career. And so we could, we could talk a lot about the founding story of Harris farm, but I really want to understand your story. Yep. And so you, grew up in Durell and then you finished school. What's, what's next for Luke after, after school?

After that, at the age of 18, I went and worked for Pass Valley Pearls up in Northwestern Australia. We worked on a boat. What were you doing there? We were called ringers, which is kind of like deckhand ringers. It was a cultured pearl boat. Very rarely now do they drive down and find a perfect pearl.

divers go down and collect pearl shell and then they inject it with a piece of Mississippi clam shell and they basically farm these pearls over a four year period to become the beautiful pass belly pearls. Wow. So you were one of the divers? We're doing a bit of diving, bit of basically decan divers. That was our job description. so at the end of the, each day we had to go and lay the shore back along the ocean floor. So we'd pull the,

The hardcore pearl divers, know, the guys who were, back then they seemed so old, I'm guessing they were like 23. But they would go down and they would collect the wild shell. And then we would get the wild shell that had been caught and deliver it to the Japanese, most of them were Japanese, 99 % of the people who were doing the inserting of the pearl were Japanese.

Dylan Pathirana (16:34.894)
And then at end of the afternoon we'd have to dive back along the ocean floor and lay them back down. So what made you decide to go into that path? It was fun. It was fun. And it was fun too. There was some great guys on the boat still. Some guys I call friends today. But it was an adventure. There was crocodiles and tiger sharks and poison jellyfish. There was as much fishing as you could ever want to do.

We'd earn $200 a day and following the tides of the moon. So you'd be out on the for 11 days, you'd come home with $2,200 in cash and you'd have to be back on the boat in three days time. We'd try to spend every single cent of it. It was so much fun. And something which people, you can't really even understand.

But yeah, it was brilliant. know what I mean? There was huge indigenous communities up there. was people coming out of a private school in Sydney who you'd never think would meet and work with. There was the Paspali family who were magnificent. You know what I mean? I still see James and Nick or Claire probably once every two years I run into them and they still remember who I am. It makes me, and.

I really learned what it was like to work up there too. You know, I thought, you know, this would be a bit of easy, but then we know we used to work 13 or 14 hours a day and so forth. And no, it was, it was good. It was great. And how did you find out about that coming from Durell and then all of a sudden ending up? They, they, they support, they, pick 10 people a year to go up and do it. You know what I mean? And I was lucky enough to be number 10, think. that's amazing. And so I, after that, happens?

I come back, I attend university. And I think after that wild period up in the Northwest, I don't think it was great to go back to university. I probably should have come back and worked for a year, then go into university, failed university, dropped out, didn't fail, I just dropped out, didn't do it. And over the period of time, my grandfather actually came and started working for my father who started Harris Fund Markets. And...

Dylan Pathirana (18:54.016)
I was working there just part time or something whilst I was waiting for something to do and my grandfather passed away. So there was my grandfather, my father and myself. And he was working up, my grandfather worked until the day he died. He came home sick one day and the next day he passed away from emphysema. And then you kind of helped.

start helping your dad. And once again, I mentioned 1991, my father, didn't go, he went bankrupt, he went into not chapter 11, but he got a section, I can't remember what the actual term was. And his creditors forgave him for all the debts, they lost all the, which is another great story, you know what I mean? he traded through going bankrupt basically, and how he traded through with it, and how he rebuilt the business.

So when I started working for him, there was four shops. was not really any money, you know what I mean? With skin and bones and you know what mean? And couldn't borrow any money or anything like that. So what was this? 19? Would have been 1995. Yeah. Yeah. And did you always foresee yourself going into the family business? We worked there every Christmas. Yeah. Whenever we got in trouble, like whenever we got in trouble, was like

You get grounded for a week. You're going to work for a show in the shops for a week. You So what was there so much of punishment? But it was like, you can't get into trouble. Yeah, I get it. And so, and I always loved it. I always wanted to I always love the business. I was passionate about it then it's still passionate about it now. But I always love the business. And yeah, you know,

To be honest, I always wanted to just go and work at our own markets. So you were talking before about your grandfather's chicken processor. Yeah. And how he sold that. Yeah. Just as your dad was kind of graduating. And I read he your grandfather said to your dad, something like, you've got to go out and find your own thing. Yeah. Did you ever I don't think he ever said that. He said he did say follow those three rules about their

Dylan Pathirana (21:18.446)
The capital about the, you know, what the good guys do and the cash. But I think, you know, was always, cause my grandfather was working for his father. But going back to that question, did I ever want to do anything on my own?

I always thought about it. It was always a bit of shame that I didn't do it. you talk about that, what does success look like? If you're not comfortable on the inside, you're never really going to be successful, you? You can. And there was definitely times in my life, I think especially in my late 20s and early 30s, where was like, you know what I mean? He's working for his dad.

You know what I mean? And so there was, you know, I guess there was maybe a bit of shame there for, know, in those, they aren't formative years. I think they're years where you're worried about what people are thinking about you years. But, you know, and so there was a period there where it definitely was like, you know what I mean? I'm just working with my dad. But, you know, I tell you what, it's always been incredibly hard work. My father has always, he's never been, we're just going through a process at the moment about

how are we going to lead the company going forward? And I always say that my father was never a CEO. My father was a day trader in fruit and vegetables. My brothers and I haven't been really CEOs over the last 12 years that we've been in the role. We've been these senior department head leaders. So in a way that I've kind of done so much. So when I first started working in 1995, my dad goes,

I'm gonna do the buying, you look after the four shops. And I was 19 at this stage, you know what I mean? And probably smoking way too much marijuana and you know what I mean? And bits and pieces like, holy shit, you know?

Dylan Pathirana (23:20.618)
It was, yeah, and so it was never really like I and so was I sometimes worried what people were thinking about me? Yes, but I'll tell you what, I was always doing my own thing. You know what I mean? Like I was trying to work out how to run four shops. Back then there was a huge influence from the Italian immigrants working in the grain grocer business and so forth.

It's been one of the great joys of my business is working with all the different cultures and really getting to know cultures, if that makes sense. working with these guys who spent 20 years working for my dad and they were hardcore and Sicilian and Calabresian and they didn't let me get away with anything. it made me really understand that business is so much about working with people and so forth.

but yeah, so getting back to that question, did I ever want to do anything else? not really. Not, not, not really. I think, you know, and looking back on it now, I'm very proud of what we have achieved. when did your brothers actually join the business? So I think, so the other day someone announced that I've been working for years now at Harris mine markets, you know, and so, and I think.

Gus is about to do his 20 years. All right. So that's, know, and so, so, so must be, so I must've done it 11 years by myself. Okay. Before they joined. Yeah. And, I did find it quite hard actually when my brothers came, cause it was kind of like, you know, it was kind of, and, and I think you talk once again, what does success look like and that inner success.

And that toxic masculinity between brothers and bits and pieces, it took me a long time and realising that so much of that.

Dylan Pathirana (25:25.394)
is dealing with yourself. Yeah. And it's not too bad working with your brothers and, and bits and pieces. but so, yeah, so that was a big part of, you know, that was, you know, a journey that I went on. Yeah. It was not great for my relationship with a whole lot of people, but, you know, we, definitely, made it work. We made it happen. to the point now, you know, he's my business partner for 20 years, you know, it's kind of, yeah. Yeah. But in that, in that.

moment. Like you knew you had like 10 plus years on your brother is coming in. You feel like you almost had a bit of it and ego. Ego ego is really, you know, ego, ego. Yeah, ego is not a great thing. But that's what I'm talking about. way ego was wasn't you know, but all of sudden

Yeah, and he was working and so my dad, as I say, I was looking after the shops. My dad was looking after the markets and then my brother was sitting in there. And so he had my you'd see my dad every day. I might only see him every two or three days, you know, see my dad every day.

But yeah, so yeah, definitely, definitely did affect my ego a bit, you know, and perhaps, and, and, for, I still often see it, you know what I mean? So another brother, there was three co-CEOs at one stage. Yeah, and I've seen it happen that after, you know, 40 or 50 years of relationship with each other, you can set each other off pretty, pretty easily, you know what I mean? And that's that.

toxic masculinity and that, know, because there was definitely not this idea that there was an older brother, you know, I mean, there was six and a half years between fatherless and so forth. One thing my mother and father always made very clear to us was that we're paying you a wage. And unless it's well documented and so forth about shares and bits and pieces, you know, your wage is your wage. This isn't.

Dylan Pathirana (27:31.586)
you're not earning sweat equity through this or that or anything like that. yeah. So I never really thought that I had this big ownership piece that my brothers didn't because I did 10 years or something like that. Which once again is not great for family businesses either when people think that. If it's well documented, I think if it's done well documented and put through the process and done well, I think it's really important for family business to do that.

And also when you have partners involved, et cetera, right? So the family dynamics will change and then the complexity will be like, yeah, to a next level, right? So yeah, I mean, guess your mom and dad probably spend a lot of time talking to you or trying to, I mean, that's quite natural, right? Like family. Yeah. But that, yeah, but that whole, you know, what does success look like? Managing your ego is a good one.

I think especially for boys, think girls are pretty good at it, you know what I mean? But I think for the boys, that's so much of it. But again, the great thing about your brothers, right? You obviously build trust between yourself, right? You build trust and you're far more forgiving. That's a big thing. Like, know, if people had treated me the way that some of my brothers had treated me and vice versa, you'd never work with these guys ever again. Absolutely. You'd say, you can't be done.

But you know, like I see, I see my kids doing it. I've got a four and a five year old at home at the moment. And you know what I mean? It's like, how can they be so rude to each other or so mean to each other? then 30 seconds later, they're playing in the same room. It's like, it's water off a duck's back. know, once again, that's a good, but you know, what that has meant, I think we've got some fantastic aspects of our culture and our business, but there's parts of it that we're really trying to change today because

It probably got to that stage because three brothers competing, you for a piece of peanut butter on toast or a decision made around a boardroom. Like it's basically the same, know, it's so many, so many parts around that. guess out of five boys, only three boys decided to go into business. My older brother worked for a long time inside the family. He was working with my father as a buyer down in the markets. But once again, that was during that, you know, he was, so he was a couple of years older.

Dylan Pathirana (29:58.316)
He was there at you know, the co-face when we were going through the bankruptcy and so forth. So he, think he had a different experience. He was working close to my dad too, which would have made it, you know, but you know, he still does some stuff in the fruit and veg side of the business. We all sit on the family council and we talk about the business a lot. Sometimes we definitely, we get to a stage where it's less like at a family dinner, it's like cut.

No more talking about the family because you know, they all know what they all give feedback and you know, and I think they're all quite proud of the business too. Yeah. I mean, that's interesting because at the time that you joined the business, you only had four stores. How many stores you have now? We've got 32 stores now. Amazing. And into two other states as well. Two other states and territories. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And how did you do that? Go from basically administrated like being in administration to

Lots of hard work, lots of hard work. And I've always been amazed at the work ethic of people who work for us, people who supply to us. It's a very hands-on business. One of our core values is it happens on the shop floor. We're in it together like Christmas week and so forth. And so there's definitely been lots of hard work.

Whenever we hire people now in, you know, executive, you know, C-suite roles, we always say, you've got to be prepared from being soaring in the stratosphere to digging in the weeds within the, you know, the same day. Yep. This idea, you know what I mean? And so it's very, you know, we know the details. Now the core value of Harris Farm Markets is know your numbers.

Every Tuesday morning we sit down and we go through basically every line item and any outline of any line item inside the store or the buying ratios and bits and pieces. We've always been, you know, we've always focused on products. Now the core value of Harris Farm Market's bloody good products. You know, we really focus on, we really focus on the product. We focus on the product, we focus on good products.

Dylan Pathirana (32:16.59)
You know, we spent a lot of time and then on top of that, we've traveled the world to see what people are doing around the world. We focus on strategy. We focus on being loyal to our people. yeah, and so, and that whole growing process has been amazing for me of what I've seen. You know, I remember when I opened the first shop, it was like, this is so easy.

just open another shop and I reckon our profit will probably increase by 40 or 50 % this year. This is just amazing. Then you open another shop, you have four, five, six, you know, it's like, I'm a genius, I'm a genius. And then you open up shop number seven, and it's like, business isn't so good this year. What's going on? You know I mean? know, is it the debt levels? Is it the system? And then we spend a year getting that right. You know I mean? And you work out, you need a...

better person in people and culture. Do you need a new, you know? And then you grow again and it's like, then you open shop eight. It's like, yeah, we're making money. Shop nine, shop 10. It's like, shit, we're losing money again. What's going wrong? You know? And it's like, actually we need a new head of logistics. We a new CFO. And so we kind of have grown with this business all the time. And so it has been something. so once again, I was just kind of.

not too concerned that I'm still working for dad. Yeah. Is that because I've seen the growth and I know what's happened and, and been part of all these decisions and making it happen and so forth. Yeah. Yeah. So it is, it is just this idea that you can be prepared that, yep, you, you know, you're growing today, tomorrow it just continually changes and businesses never, you know, I've never seen a business like this. It's up and down. And so one thing I've noticed also, walking with you in a store.

probably a couple of months back, you pretty much knew everyone's by their name. The culture.

Dylan Pathirana (34:23.181)
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know, being anonymous in your workplace is not good. Yeah, I don't think I don't. And it's hard to as we continually grow and grow and grow. You know, I think that I think that that's what people people do like to be known. Yeah, who they are. You know, people, some people call it woke. But this idea that you can be who you want to be in your workplace is so important. If you can't be who you want to be or who you are.

you're not going to have a great experience at work. that goes back to, know, at the moment, got a huge amounts of these young kids have come out from Nepal who are working for us. And, you know, just to, you know, just for them to be who they want to be has been great for us, great for them. And it works really well. It works really well. They say where they sit inside the business, the organization, you know, they're

from the newest, we'd probably be employing three or four new Nepalese kids to be serving on the cash register this week. We've got some sitting up really high in the IT business. We've got some running several stores and bits and pieces. So yeah, that idea that our team members are not anonymous when they come to work is pretty important for us. And I think that's one of the three things that we try to do to make a job great. So that's, and that is...

Not being anonymous. Yeah. that is letting them know why their job is important to someone else. you are part of this graded Yep. Yep. Yeah. And so I have another question, which is what do you think separates Harris farm from the super giants like Coles and Woolies? I haven't answered, but I to see if it's the same.

Dylan Pathirana (36:18.176)
What makes Harrah's farm different to Coles and Woolworth's is once again I'll go back to the Coal value. We're more market than supermarket.

And, and that is such a broad term. you know, we spend a lot of our, because we clearly cannot compete with Coles and Woolworths as, you know, head to head. We just can't be done. They've got 800 shops each. We've got 32 shops. And so we sit there and we spend a lot of our time differentiating ourselves as far as much as we can from the likes Coles, Woolworths and Aldi and so forth. You know, when we do that.

We do that through a whole range of reasons. We think we've got, does more market than supermarket mean to us? If it's in season, seize it. I came to your house the other day and I brought the newest mangoes out. Let nature deliver. If nature's delivering, it's gonna be taste the best, it's gonna be the best value, and it's gonna be good for...

You know, it's going to be good for the environment. It's going to be good for everyone. what else do we do? We are Willy Wonka our stores, you know what I mean? We sit around and we think, how do we make this a really fun shopping experience? another, another one is, just enough dirt. We don't try to be perfect. You know what I mean? And of course those bloody good products. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think it is? So the, one that I think is it's almost the ability to

they'll sit in the like startup stage where it's you can innovate quickly. So like, for example, think correct me if I'm wrong, farm was the one who started this like imperfect pick in Australia, in Australia, definitely in Australia. Yeah. that's, that's, that's following someone quickly overseas. know what I mean? Yeah. And you know, now Coles and Woolies have followed suit, but I think it's the ability to implement those things.

Dylan Pathirana (38:26.048)
at speed. Once again, I'll go back to the values. More market. So we're here for the greater, greater, greater goodness. And we do that by being more market than supermarket. Harris farming it, Harris farmers and fair dinkum. No, the four, you know what I mean? And so one of the things that Harris farming it is, is doing more with less and smashing it out today. And so, you know, and so that's

So that's really innovating quickly. Like we walk in and you see a product that someone's got. It's like, wow, we should be able to be able to do something that good. And just like speed to market as well. Like even I think paper bags was another big one, which you guys jumped on that wave early and eliminated plastic bags within your stores. And I think for a lot of the big behemoths, it's a very slow change. There's so much red tape, but you being a family business,

you can make those decisions quickly and implement. Yeah. So that is definitely that smashing out today. And the experience as well, you know, when you go to Woolies or Coles and it's totally different experience going to Farm, you feel like you, go into someone's like, yes, it is friends shop, but you feel that, you know, you go in there, people are very welcoming and you know, it's, yeah.

It's, yeah, we, we, we, and we try, we try hard. We're very proud of what we do, you know, and, and we work hard on making the shop season like, you know, fun, you know, it's not, it's not posh. Yep. It's not cool. You know what I mean? It's not trying to, we're not trying to be, that's that fair dinkum side. know what I mean? but yeah, we, we, we try to make it an enjoyable place. Yeah. You know, our, our mission, if our purpose is the greater good, our mission is to be the most loved fresh food retailer in the Eastern States of Australia.

I think, I think you're on the right path. I have a friend who we both love cooking steak and whenever we've got some friends over, we go to Harris farm and we honestly spend just time just looking at the stakes because it's just like such a great display. it's very, you know, it's you've got selection there as well. Got selection. So I'd also like to touch on the look outside of work as well. I know you do a lot outside of work, whether it's on the farm or.

Dylan Pathirana (40:46.158)
I know you also very big and to surf life saving as well. and outside of work by far, my favorite thing is being a dad. Yeah. By far, you know, I love being a father. It is, that is, that is a real, like you talk about success. Yeah. You know, those happy kids, you know, I just, I just love it. I just love spending time with them. I love to give them. I thought I had this blessed upbringing. I would love to be able to hope that my kids in.

50 years time will say I had the best upbringing. I had fun. You know what mean? I got caught talking good values. Now don't want to be this cushy thing and so forth about, know, I don't want them looking at iPads and bits and pieces. I want them to see me as a mate. I want them to see me as a, you know, advice giver. But yeah, I really, you know, I love being a father. That's what I love doing the most outside of it. And so two ways that I do that, definitely.

with my kids is with the beach and with the farm. Two things where iPads don't go too well are the beaches and the farms. And I thank Steve Jobs often because for me to be a better father, I've just got to be better than an iPad, which isn't that hard. It isn't that hard as long as you're prepared to work on it. Like we're just going to sit at home and...

Yeah. Watch sport. Or if I'm going to be hung over on a Saturday morning, of course the kids would rather use an iPad than hang out with their dad. But you know, so yesterday, know, yesterday was a pretty, it wasn't a great beach day. Yesterday we went at the farm and I convinced my daughter that if she comes and has a look at four shops with me, we can go and watch a movie at the end of it. And she sat there and you know, she's five and she went to all the shops and she was looking and, and, and, and, and,

And then we went and watched a movie and she said, and she also could talk about this morning was not so much the movie, but coming to the shops with me. But you take them, know, we go to the beach and yeah, I think beaches are fantastic for community. You know, like every morning I go down, I train with the surf club, you know, whether it be going to the gym, paddling on a board.

Dylan Pathirana (43:13.282)
I love the swimming side of it, but without fail, you end up in a sauna having a chat with your mates. know what I mean? And so you kind of done something healthy and not gone to the pub, but had all the chat you'd have at a pub afterwards and it's a seven o'clock and you really go to work. know, it's a, it's it's a great way to start the day. surf life saving, you know, as I say, they're fantastic. Yeah. They save lives.

There's no doubt about that, but really they keep you fit. They keep you healthy. They keep you connected to a community. and you know, I've built some fantastic friendships and relationships over that time down there at the, at North Bondi surf club. and, you know, the kids spending time with the kids on the beach, whether it be playing with the sandcastle, teaching them to surf, you know,

my older daughter Ivy, if she were able to do 1K ocean swim with me during an ocean swimming race, and I'm very proud of and I love to do. then on, and then, you know, and if I'm not at the beach on the weekend, I'd be probably be up at the farm that you guys have come and visited. And once again, you know, what does a farm do? And makes you kind of, you kind of always working on a farm. always, you know, it's always physical activity.

Whether it be moving cows around and so forth. But the real joy, once again, is the horse riding with the girls. As a father of daughters only, there's very few things you can do with a daughter that thrills the daughter and the father at the same time. that one of them is horse riding. I can't keep up with my two kids now. They're just too fast.

Yeah, it's like slow down. Wait for me. Yeah, like, you we, you know, so it's a, it's a great way to spend time. You know, we've got a few horses up there and Icelandic horses, you know, if a fall up was a Greyhound, the Icelandic horses are a Labrador, you know, they're the most friendly little horses. And we, you know, we ride around and yeah, a hundred plus. I think that's a real testament to my father. You know, he,

Dylan Pathirana (45:37.198)
He said to us 12 or 13 years ago, it's like, guys, it's time for me to step aside from the business. You know, you guys can make better decisions. But I'm going to go and create this farm adventure up in the Blue Mountains. And he's done a, he's done a fabulous job with that. yeah, and it's a big part of our life now. And yeah, and a great way to spend time with the kids, whether it be just having a bush walk, you know. Yeah, we love coming to your farm.

Yeah. And do you hope that one day your kids will join the family business?

Only if they'd want to. Only if they'd want to. You know, as I say, you know, she came to work with me yesterday. She loved it. You know, know Ivy loves to spend a couple of days, you know, just helping out around the shop during Christmas time. Yeah, they've got to do what they love. Yeah, they got to do what they love, don't they? You know, it's really important. Who knows where the business will be.

you know, 20 years time, so, you know, probably won't be 100 % family owned. I wouldn't think, you know what I mean? At some stage you will have to sort of like change some ownership structure there somewhere. Yeah. And it's, I guess it'd be hard. yeah, so, you know, if they really loved it and it was part of their life, you know, I'd be fully, I'd support them the whole way, of course. I'd support them whole way, of course.

And along your journey, have there, have you had any mentors who have kind of influenced your life? Definitely. Definitely lots. as I was saying, the couple of the old Italian guys who used to work in the shops when I first started, when I was 19, they taught me so much, know, man, they taught me so much. few of the other guys, guy called John Drabble, who's kind of like a business coach.

Dylan Pathirana (47:41.806)
We've been working with him for about 10 years now and he just guides me in the right direction. Another fantastic mentor I had is a man called Richard Owens who passed away last year. He was facilitating a family business association group I'm with. He used to run 80 grocery stores up between Newcastle and Grafton.

He was a great mentor as well and definitely my father, know. My father's always been a fantastic mentor to me too, very much.

Do as I say, not as I do. Do what I recommend, not as I do. Because he admits his faults. And that's one thing he's always been great at is admitting when he's made a mistake and so forth. And I want to know what spurred you to go to Harvard?

Dylan Pathirana (48:43.735)
Lots of people had, not lots, three or four people I'd spoken to had recommended that I do. I kind of was perhaps at a stage where I was feeling as though I wasn't giving as much back into the business. had several people working underneath me. As I say, working through the roles, I realized I'd worked a lot on the retail side, a lot on the property side of the business.

I had two really great people, still do have two really great people running those departments for Harris Farm Markets and they were doing a better job if not better than when I was working there. I felt as though I needed to learn a bit more. I felt as though perhaps I was becoming a bit complacent about where I was sitting. Perhaps I was a

bit of a shame that I dropped out of university 30 years ago and probably wanted to do a bit more. But yeah, but it's been, that has been a real highlight of my career, one of the real highlights of my career. I've learned so much. I've had lots of friends, met lots of friends. It's changed the way that I think about business. We used to a lot of, we used to act very quickly. Now I spend a lot of time thinking with it, but

possibly the most valuable I've got out of the whole course, you know, is the fact that it's kept the candle burning. You know, it's not this idea that I don't want to go along now and sell the business next year, next year or anything like that. I was like, wow, I really want to work on this business and grow it a bit more. But it's been, it's been fantastic. You know, people like Jam and all my friends who I've made there and, and, know, and what I've learned and stuff, but yeah, it definitely has kept the candle burning inside me. It's definitely been the same answer.

Dylan Pathirana (50:42.379)
from pretty much all of the, the hard fact that we've spoken to. So, yeah. So Luke, what's from here? Like what's the plan for Luke?

Dylan Pathirana (50:55.31)
it's a, it's a really interesting one. You know, we've got a very good five year plan for Harris farm markets. you know, to be honest, you know, that's the way I see it. I've got a great five year plan. We're going to double the size of the business over the next five years. Amazing. you know, we're going to venture into Victoria within those five years and so forth. but you know, I see myself in absolutely the thick of it.

double business in five years, spend a lot of time with my kids, be fulfilled on the inside. I'm really looking forward to it. I don't mind a bit of toiling and so forth. Hopefully my role will be very different than where it was before I started at Harvard two years ago. And it is changing quickly. It is changing. I definitely want to focus on what does a leader look like managing great executives.

more work on the business, not in the business. These guys do it so much better than, know, that's what I've realized there, how much better they are. And you know, yeah. You know, how do I empower those people? Yeah. And looking back on your journey, is there, is there one lesson that you look back on really fondly and you think it's had a big impact or maybe not fondly that you think has had the greatest impact on you?

I think when I got divorced. Interesting. think when getting divorced was one of the great learnings for me. It made me realize that I wasn't perfect. Made me realize that I could blame lots of other people for things going on in my life. But realistically, know what I mean? It's my happiness, where I want to go, what my success is, definitely comes down to myself.

I learnt that life isn't fair, you can always make it fair in the long run for yourself. Yeah. And so that, you know, that was by far the biggest learning I've had in my whole life is that it was going through that, that trauma of a divorce and coming out the other side and rebuilding my life and rebuilding my family and, and realising that you can definitely rebuild too, you know? So it's, you know, I think that it's, it's, it's good.

Dylan Pathirana (53:23.052)
You know, was, it was a real lesson. Yeah. Yeah. You know, to be honest, I think I even saw, you know, I saw that lesson too, when I was 15 years old, when my father went bankrupt too, you know, and it's this was just a good reminder perhaps to me and so forth that that's, you know, that it's not, you know, it's never the end of the world. Yeah. You know, it's, can always grow out of something. Yeah. Puts it back into perspective. It puts it back into perspective. Yeah. And looking back on your journey.

After all that we've spoken about today and your definition of success, do you feel successful?

Dylan Pathirana (54:02.318)
Yes. Yes. I think the Harris Farm Markets brand is much bigger than the balance sheet. So it's not about money. It definitely isn't about money. know what I mean? But some people think, you know, you've got this giant business. know, it's 32 shops. You know what I mean? There's plenty of other much bigger family businesses around than Harris Farm Markets. So it's not, but do I think I'm successful? Yeah, I think I've got a wholesome life.

I've got a fantastic family. I've got a business that I'm very proud to be working in, very proud to be working in. And I love my community. know, yeah, so I do, I do think I am successful in that, you know what I mean? I've got those three pillars that, that, you know, I am really proud of and, and, and it makes, it makes me enjoy my life. Absolutely. And I definitely agree with you from the outside. You are, you are definitely a successful in my eyes.

And throughout our conversation, I've been jotting down a few things, which I think are attributes, which have led to your successful life. And so I'd like to share them with you. think the first one is your humility. You, it would be very easy for a big tough bloke like you look to not accept your flaws, but clearly throughout this conversation, you, you have identified where your weaknesses were and the things that you needed to do to improve yourself. And you've gone and

worked on those things. And I think that's a key trait. And the other one is learning from others. I think you were in a very privileged position where you could have just gone, you know, this is my family business. All those people on the floor don't really, they can't teach me anything. But in this conversation, time and time again, the people on the floor, they know better than me. They, I learned from these people on the floor. And so I think.

that ability to learn from others and also even going all over the world, looking for trends and things like that and how you can implement it in your own business. think that continuous learning mindset is, is, has led to your success. And then the other one is your authenticity. mean, throughout this conversation, it's very clear you, know, you are Luke. Yes, there's no hiding it. And I think that ties into your humility. You don't like beat around the bush.

Dylan Pathirana (56:27.426)
You're very direct and upfront and you own who you are. And I think that's really powerful. And then the last one that I want to put is your gratitude as well. You spoke about it a lot and how you're thankful to all sorts of people who have impacted your life. And I think again, you're in a position where it would have been so easy for you to kind of just roll with the flow and think that this is yours. This is your name's on the door. So why not? But you.

are very grateful when you look back and help all the people who have gotten you to where you are today. So thank you so much for this conversation. And to that list, knowing Luke for the last two years, and he's very curious and he's always wanted to know about the other cultures and how the other people are, where their background and the food they eat. So that's amazing. So he's not just

focusing on one because as you know, when you see Luke, big block, you know, like in a very straight, like black and white. But then when you start talking to him, he's got a different side. He's very soft and he's really keen to really understand others. know, that's, that's amazing thing. Yeah. Thank you so much for this conversation. It's been really good. Thank you. I've enjoyed it. Yeah. Thank you, Luke. Thanks for your time. Yeah. No worries. And for those listening.

if you could do us a massive favor and follow us at the Quest for Success pod on all socials and also subscribe or follow to us on whichever platform you're listening to this on right now. Thank you so much for listening and we'll catch you guys in the next episode. Thank you.