From Ousted Politician to Venture Capitalist - Tomasz Misiak

In this episode of The Quest for Success Podcast, we sit down with Tomasz Misiak, a former senator of Poland turned entrepreneur and investor, to explore his remarkable journey through business, politics, and personal growth. Born in communist-era Poland, Tomasz shares how his early environment shaped his view of success - not as a destination, but as “playing the next level.”

He takes us through founding his first business in the early ’90s, his foray into politics, and the challenges of being a public figure under constant scrutiny. From facing political fallout to reinventing himself in the world of venture capital, Tomasz shares candid lessons on leadership, loyalty, innovation, and the human side of success.

Today, he champions young entrepreneurs, sustainable business models, and emerging technologies like AI and robotics. His story is a testament to resilience, reinvention, and leaving a legacy that extends beyond profit.

Key Takeaways
✅ Success is a moving target - keep leveling up
✅ Early life in a communist regime shaped lasting values
✅ Personal milestones are just as important as financial ones
✅ Entrepreneurship often starts with small, imperfect beginnings
✅ “Fake it till you make it” is real in the business world
✅ Loyalty and leadership matter deeply in both politics and business
✅ Storytelling is a powerful tool in any career
✅ Public life comes with pressure - integrity keeps you grounded
✅ Politics can impact your personal life - choose your battles
✅ Innovation and sustainability are the future of business
✅ Supporting young founders drives long-term societal change
✅ AI and robotics will reshape the world - adapt or be left behind
✅ Legacy is about helping others succeed

If you're navigating politics, business, or your own version of success - this episode is a masterclass in growth, grit, and long-term impact.

Connect with Tomasz:
Website: https://mizyak.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tomasz_misiak/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasz-misiak-286b961b

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Transcript

Dylan Pathirana (00:56.598)
All right. Welcome back to the Quest for Success podcast. And thanks so much for tuning in once again today on the show. We're really excited because we have Tomas Misziak and he's, he's done so many different things in his time. And I'm really, really looking forward to this conversation and diving into all of the things he's done across his life. So I had the privilege of meeting Tomas at Harvard Business School again.

and we spent three years and got to know him well. And I know he's got an awesome story and we are here to unpack and understand that his background and story and share with everyone. Thank you, Thomas, for joining us.

Tomasz Misiak (01:40.534)
Thank you very much. Thank you, Jam. I'm very excited to be with you here. I have listened to many of the stories of our friends from OPM. And it's also the great lesson how many different stories can drive people to what they call success, what they call their life business, or what they call just their happiness. So it's amazing to listen.

Dylan Pathirana (02:03.798)
Yep. So Thomas, this whole conversation is about success, right? And so we need to start something, start with something quite fundamental. And that is what does success actually mean to you?

Tomasz Misiak (02:17.17)
You know, I got this question before watching your podcast and I had a very strong feeling that success is not a perfect measure. Because how would the fan life? From my point of view, I think the life is a game and success is just to play the next level. If you remember all of these arcade games in the 80s, but still they are developed in many

more complicated now like Diablo you always have levels where you have to go and it really doesn't matter if you have more or less points on every level but it matters if you are really possible to go to the next level and I think that my life is defined a little bit through these levels remember I was born in a communist country when I was born it was 70s I still remember as a child

the tanks on the street, I still remember the civil war we had in Poland. I still remember when we switched from the communist country into the free economy and I think that is the part of success of my country. My private success during this story was completely different because on some level of life, success was to finish good school, to have healthy parents, to live in a good family.

Success was to have friends to play the ball. So it was a complete redefinition, of course, when we're going to business and we have some goals and strategy, when you try to have more money. But still, what the real success is, it's just going to these all levels. These levels are defined by schools, by life, by our heritage, by our marriages, by our families. In some of these fields, unfortunately, I didn't success, but still believe that playing...

is the key life success if you are able to go to the next level.

Dylan Pathirana (04:14.988)
That's a very interesting definition. We haven't heard that before. I like that though, playing the game and getting to the next level. And I suppose you mentioned that, you you grew up in Poland. Can you take us through your early life and how you think it's shaped who you've become today?

Tomasz Misiak (04:30.86)
I think it saved a lot all of us living especially in the area where there was no freedom. All of us and me personally, we grew up in a country which rather was focused on work, business was treated very badly. I still remember it was in 1988 when I started my secondary school.

and it was the technical school and it was before, one year before, Communists collapsed in Central Europe. And there was a guy, like old kind Communist secretary, who was the real boss of the school because all of the schools have these kind of guys. And the guy came to our class, was just a men class, and he said, all of you guys here, you have to apply to association of socialistic young men.

and you have to work there because you will be future party member. And I was the only person who held my hand and said, I'm sorry, I will not. And he looked at me and said, your son will not finish that school. A year later, he was fired from that school because communists collapsed, had the free election, the party members didn't count anymore, they didn't regulate our life, and the free economy started. Of course, it doesn't matter.

that the economy was in a very difficult position, a higher inflation, that we didn't have money. But it was the taste of freedom. I think that all of the people and all of the people who have the success of trying to get to success, initially in their roots have to fight with the scarcity.

And observing now the world, observing now our current young people, observing now what's going on, how abandoned the world has become for many of us, and we are really privileged to have it. Our children have access to best knowledge, best schools. Everything of this, remember, happens in Poland in 30 years. It was not a part of our history. Now we live in the part...

Tomasz Misiak (06:41.1)
of the history which is recognized as the best history ever for Polish nation, probably the last similar we had in 1600, but nobody lives so long to remember. So I think that we are really in a very specific position because after the 30 years, from this moment when you can remember the socialistic school guy, and I can say that Poland currently hit the level of production.

similar to Japan per capita, of course, with the parity of the purchase power. So for us, Japan in the 80s, was like a country which was the country of wealth, the country of modernization, of everything best. And we really dreamed about having a car from Japan. But now we don't. We are in a completely different position. So it shows that even for a nation, the success of individuals can be combined into the huge

success of the whole group. speaking about this, when it happened, also the freedom of economy started. And I remember my first business, my first success which I started, was in 1992, 1993, because one of my friends has owned who was producing candles. I don't know anything about candles until now.

But she was giving us these candles and we were going to some square parks and different places and we were selling it. So trying to sell it, it was making us first money. So then I started to have like this selling different stuff, the first candles, but then cosmetics, which I've taken from my father who actually started small shop in the city because he was also...

involved in this small business and I started to earn my own money on vacation. being 17, 18, I was totally independent from my family. So it was very important for me. Of course, still I was living with them, I spending time with them, but I paid for my own vacation, I paid for my own parties and everything. that's why I decided to go to University of Economy because I calculated, okay, if I know how to sell, probably I understand how to sell it better.

Tomasz Misiak (09:06.63)
So that was the real story. And then the next story begins of how I can say, not even the decision making process, but the current situation can shape your future. Because when I went to University of Economy in Wrocław, my city, you have to divide these regular economies and free economies and communist economies into the two different parts of the world, probably for someone who didn't live in that...

regulated one is difficult to understand. But I can explain you that in communist time there was no something like HR. Because HR does not exist. HR was restricted to party domination. So domination of who we can choose, who can be accepted, it was not part of HR director but rather the secretary of the party. But that's why on the universities there was no specialization of HR. So when I finished my school and I finished my

Dylan Pathirana (09:45.493)
huh. Yep.

Tomasz Misiak (10:05.516)
secondary school and go to university, it's a pill that they created the first ever HR group for educating the specialists in this area of my university. And my choice was very similar as usual. As you remember, I didn't choose to be in the big group associated in socialist young men group. So that's why I choose the other, which everybody wanted to not choose. So people were choosing economy,

Dylan Pathirana (10:17.708)
Wow.

Tomasz Misiak (10:34.89)
banking, other sectors, but the smallest group in my university was HR. So I joined the smallest group because I always try to not follow the old crowds and trying to rather look for the niches and I think it works. And going there, it helps me a lot because thanks to that I learn how to manage people, how to motivate them, how to build.

structures, what does it mean for the group. had a very new experience because it was the new knowledge. So we studied Kotler, we studied Draker, which was not actually part of the previous system because it was rather forbidden knowledge, which no one wanted to use. And that's why we started to be very modern. And when I started to read the articles from different newspapers about HR,

I found that in other countries there is something which existed in Poland before, but it was rather very very strange existence because it was like students association were organizing workers for the factories as students. So it was that part. In the whole world it was the strong very developed business called living of the people called HR outsourcing.

Dylan Pathirana (12:00.042)
Yep.

Tomasz Misiak (12:00.31)
Companies like Adecco, Manpower, Kali Services, huge businesses existing on the market for 60 years, but in Poland there was no such market. And we decided that it's something we want to organize. And it was a very funny story how, one more time, not a decision, only situation can cause the next action. When I ask my friends, let's do something like that. Let's start to develop projects. Let's call it...

I found myself the name, it was the work service company. Let's organize some process and let's print some offer. And the first offer which I printed, it was absolutely crazy. I don't understand until now what it happened, but the first offer I printed like Tuesday and on Wednesday, my friend who finished my school year before me called me and told me, I remember you told me that...

You are organizing such temporary staffing agency that I am now working in a practical which used to be, now they closed in Poland, but it used to be the biggest network of hypermarkets for builders and I'm looking for students. Can you help me? So it was a complete coincidence. It was not planned. And I said, of course, you are ready. You are already prepared. And then...

We started the company which finished to be the biggest central European temporary staffing agency with 35,000 people employed with 17 countries which was listed on Warsaw and London Stock Exchange and in the top valuation moment it has 400 million dollar valuation. you can see how this strange action sometimes build but the funny stories of this how it begins

Dylan Pathirana (13:30.925)
Wow.

Dylan Pathirana (13:41.482)
Wow.

Tomasz Misiak (13:52.012)
and how you have to be entrepreneurship during your trip to success. I remember that one of the hypermarkets was built in a very far away city in Poland, like in the north, and we didn't have any representation there. But one of our friends who was a long time cooperator and a long time student, know, some universities have this long time student, he said, I have the idea, I will find our representative. And what he has done...

He just called the dormitory to this city 500 kilometers away and asked the reception, can you ask me any first person who will come to just join this call because I have to explain. Remember there was no mobile phones, no mails that time, anything. And yes, yes, I will. And the second or third person accepted that it will help us. So it was that kind of development of the structure.

And of course we built it, we recruited students, we serve our clients, client was happy. So it is like the beginning of many company starts. So I think this very famous quote, fake it till you make it, it's not something modern. It's absolutely from the old time. So it is my first business, we really went through the whole way, which company can do. So we started as a

Dylan Pathirana (15:04.097)
Yep.

Tomasz Misiak (15:17.132)
private in 2000, 2005. Then we started to buy other companies. We made a lot of acquisitions. We made this company public. We have the funds as an investor, private equity fund. And at the end, what's the funny story speaking about success, which the company, of course, if you think about it, can be recognized as the success. But now at the end, we have the hostile takeover because

Our partners in this, when we have really went into the 20 % of the company because of the investors of the acquisition, our partners just blocked increase of the capital and the company having too much debt into the minority shareholders for the acquisition just started to sell their assets and collapse under this problem and had the hostile takeover at the end. So it was the part of life.

which you never know it was the success or not success. I learned a lot. Absolutely. You know, everybody says it's also very known quote that there is no elevator or lift to success. You have the very complicated stairs and the stairs not all the time are going up. Sometimes they are going back down and whatever happens.

Dylan Pathirana (16:15.938)
Yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (16:19.626)
It's a roller coaster right? Yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (16:41.004)
Yeah, that's that's amazing story. And what do think were the key turning points from starting that because it sounded like you that was your first real introduction to business. And then you grew it into something incredible. Are there any like key turning points along that journey?

Tomasz Misiak (16:54.389)
Yes.

a lot of them and if I can tell you about the turning points. First of all, scalability of the company is important. You very often have to be all in. We risk many times in this company. We invested a lot of our private time, a lot of our private money. Literally, we had everything in one basket. Which, by the way, also is a lesson for me, which I use now and I don't will have...

Anytime more all of my eggs in one basket I'm trying now to divide risk and the companies and be in different sectors with the patterns But that time we are just young people believing that it can happen. Why? Because if communists collapse, we are free, if the market is free, so who can stop us? You know, there is a very funny tale that American specialists calculated

that the big bee cannot fly because it too small wings. But bee doesn't know about it and fly. So we didn't know that you can't do it. And that's why we did it. So it was like looking at the perspective that we are energetic, young, unfortunately trustful. Because this trust destroyed our future. Because we took too many partners who we...

Dylan Pathirana (18:00.216)
Mm-hmm.

Tomasz Misiak (18:22.784)
didn't know very well, trust based on their CVs or declaration of goodwill. It's not working every time. My lesson and my knowledge which I want to pass to your listeners, to people who we cooperate with, always, if you are trying to choose partner, choose very wisely. Don't just believe that people...

are always honest, are always true and what they say to you is the fact. Much more demand to end. But being young you are more trustful, you are more energetic and you want to believe that everybody is like you, that everybody wants to build positive business, that everybody wants to have the same goal, that everybody understands that the final success of the company is valuation, numbers and so on. And of course...

Dylan Pathirana (19:00.099)
Mm-hmm.

Tomasz Misiak (19:21.056)
During that time I had the other small adventure, maybe big adventure, because I became the senator of

Dylan Pathirana (19:31.03)
Yeah, that's interesting. Sorry to cut you off there, Thomas. What motivates you to change from business to politics?

Tomasz Misiak (19:45.9)
I didn't really change. That's a separate story. A lot of people ask me why you left business and went to politics. The point is I never left business going to politics, but being 22, 21, I parallel developed this political and business way. Why? Because I was active from the beginning. You remember this moment I told you about that I said...

Dylan Pathirana (20:11.918)
Mm-hmm.

Tomasz Misiak (20:12.844)
to the communist secretary, no, I will not be a member of... I was pre-programmed by my family, by my mother, my father, to not be following the guys, and I was opposition by definition. That's why I started my activity from the secondary school. I used to be the leader of self-government for students, then I used to be the vice-chairman of student council in my university.

president of the Student Foundation who was organizing all of the social life, all of our meetings. So I was involved all the time and at the end of my study I ran to the office of city council and I became the city council member, being 24. And after six years...

I was offered to candidate as a senator and I literally became one of the youngest senators in Poland in the history of Poland because I became the senator of Poland at the age of 30. And to be the senator in Poland you have to be 30. So you have the combination of these two factors. You have to be 30, it has to be election and the Polish free country started in 1989 so it was like a...

Dylan Pathirana (21:26.957)
Uh-huh.

Tomasz Misiak (21:37.078)
fourth or third election. That's why I have this luck to be the youngest with one of my girl friends from the Senate. We are two of us. And why I didn't left? Probably because it was mistake. Politics then mess a lot with my life. But the responsibility to the people, it is the answer. If you are active in any kind of society, in any kind of group of the people, and people rely on you.

and you promise them to deliver something and you tell them you are leader you cannot just say I'm leaving. It's very difficult. However, very often it has to be done and you probably know my mistake that I didn't do it. But very often you have to tell people no I'm leaving and you're staying because you want to help them to the end. You are just pushing them. You are asking for their help. You're representing their interests. So you cannot say...

I'm sorry, I decided not to go there. And remember, my business and my political career developed in a parallel way. So it was like the same time the company was built, the same time my next activities were coming in a politic and this kind of experience. And by the way, I don't regret, to be fair, even if I was kicked a lot because of this activity.

But it was the life university, I can say. Which, by the way, later became part of my DNA because I'm still the lifelong learner. That's why we met on Harvard. That's why I all the time want to educate myself. I'm trying to look for what the world brings new, how I can develop myself, I can develop my society, my community, my people.

Dylan Pathirana (23:06.797)
Yep.

Tomasz Misiak (23:31.052)
I'm always trying to convince people to go to this new development channels like universities, programs or even experiences, conferences. It's important. coming to the end of the discussion, I've been in politics for almost 14 years and close my rice condensate 2011. And from that time, I'm still involved a little bit in a parallel to politics because I am the member of

all of the biggest Polish enterprise organizations. And thanks to our activity, I don't know, probably you don't observe it, but Poland starts to be the leader of deregulation for positive business and more freedom in business for whole Europe. And Polish prime minister is working with us. We build trust again, and this is very important. And maybe Poland...

Dylan Pathirana (24:20.141)
Wow.

Tomasz Misiak (24:27.702)
can be the energy place which can go into Europe because Europe really forgets about its roots where it was built on entrepreneurship, on being always the leader of some changes and now it's over-regulated, it's too closed, there is a lot of complication, we see what's going on in the world, Trump puts tariffs, China puts tariffs, everybody is fighting.

Dylan Pathirana (24:54.606)
Mm-hmm.

Tomasz Misiak (24:56.608)
and Europe is losing its momentum. I believe that this Polish energy, this Polish de-legoration, the soul can go to Europe, which already is happening. So I didn't learn this activity.

Dylan Pathirana (25:08.942)
Thomas, what are the key lessons that you learned from doing politics for 14 years?

Tomasz Misiak (25:22.22)
Okay, this is a very difficult question. lesson, there is no objective true. Politics teaches you that even if you are right, it does not matter. Even if the truth is on your side, it does not matter. What matters is what other people think or what narration has been built around any kind of topic. So you can see it now.

USA citizens, a lot of them, think Trump is true. We probably have completely different opinions. Does it matter for them? No. Maybe we are right. But the narration which was created, the whole story behind it, is very important. Coming back to the story, everything, whatever you do in your life, must have a story. Story is a very powerful tool.

If you are selling, I don't know, milk or if you are doing politics. Behind every person, every leader, every product, every service, the story is key pattern and key something which has to be built key kind of description of whatever you're doing. Some of the people call it mission. Some of the people call it the product. But story is very important.

how politics is the story. Okay, not only politics, Bible is the story. And how powerful the Bible as a story, we can see it, how many churches we have in the world and how many people are still following that story, believing that it will help with their salvation. So this is the second point story. The next one, in politics and business, and I think both of the experience,

Loyalty is very rare. It's the currency which you have to really treat well and you have to be always having your eyes around because even if you think that you have friends, partners, then you can be very upset at the end of the situation. We have a joke in Poland that if you want to say...

Tomasz Misiak (27:51.498)
how different friends are. You can say that you have the friend, you have the enemy, and the worst kind is the friend from the party. it's just like, know, not worst enemy, but friends from the party. This is the kind of situation in politics which always is very emotional, not logical. That's why I think that governments make a lot of

Dylan Pathirana (28:02.254)
Yeah

Dylan Pathirana (28:06.903)
Yeah.

Tomasz Misiak (28:20.62)
mistakes because they are run by emotion and they are run by emotion not only of their environment but all nations because you know the politics most of the governments manage politics by testing what people want and then trying to to give what majority is organized but on the other hand it is also amazing to observe how country works from the inside

What is the system? What does mean to be in democracy? Because if you ask me if democracy is the best system in the world, I say yes. Nobody probably has found a better one, but I still believe yes, because we have the freedom, we can speak, can say whatever we want, so we can go wherever we want. And it's not obvious in every country.

Dylan Pathirana (29:13.836)
And you you spend a lot of time in kind of leading in public service. How do you think that that period and the experiences you had there changed the way or shaped the way that you led in, your company?

Tomasz Misiak (29:31.244)
Yes, I believe that being a leader is not only to properly set up the goals for the company, which is by the way very important, but being a is also to very take care about the people you manage. I am not involved directly in operational management for the last 14 years. I am rather an investor now.

I'm just a member of supervisory boards. What I'm trying to do for my partners, I'm trying to tell them we have to run the company in such a that our people will be happy in developing with us, in such a way that we have to observe very closely the technological changes around us, because this tsunami of change with AI and technology is coming. For sure we have to speak about this because...

This is like the next step of what's going on. Being the leader, you also have to understand that people are people. So they have conflicts, they have worst days, they can forget. You have to sometimes forgive. You cannot be the bastard who just want to destroy and demand. And of course, some of the people who are these bad bosses sometimes have success because people are afraid of them. Maybe they are paying good.

But they were never happy. I think that leaders should run the company in such a that people are motivated to work, feeling guilty if they don't deliver, but they are working happy. And it's not easy to build such leadership. It belongs to different areas, different brands, because you are differently managing the company in HR, differently in IT, and differently if you have the factory or the place where you produce something.

You know, in Poland, now being leader is even tougher than before. Remember, we have a huge shortage of manpower. So I know a lot of factories where 80 % of people are from abroad, 80 % of hardworking people are, I don't know, from Asia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, South America, Argentina, Colombia. And think how it's difficult to manage such teams.

Tomasz Misiak (31:52.402)
and taking into consideration that the political action at the same time and all of the TVs, people are attacking immigrants. So the business now going into the strange pressure because it's going from the public pressure on many staff. In Europe it's also over-regulated. It's very difficult to have people at home to work and I'm still active in the HR sector.

And I think that we are on a edge or a very big changes in every place. It's not just Europe, it's United States, it's China for sure. And we have to be very carefully managing this to not cause conflicts, problems in the companies, demotivation of people, because the external world doesn't help us for sure.

Dylan Pathirana (32:47.982)
And I know during your time in politics, there was a little bit of controversy, which you were involved in. And I don't want to dive into that, but I want to understand, do you think the more that you do for people and the higher you get elevated in society, the more scrutiny that you'll put under?

Tomasz Misiak (33:09.182)
Yes and no. In Poland we had a different problem. In Poland we have a government who didn't take care about rule of law. And they were hunting for opposition or someone who can be attached to opposition just to do harm, just to arrest them, just to make trouble, like personal attacks. In my situation they...

Dylan Pathirana (33:32.066)
Yeah. Personal attacks.

Tomasz Misiak (33:38.604)
used my divorce and they used my divorce in a very bad way. The national prosecutor was involved in my divorce which was absolute nonsense. Currently my case is in a European council listed as a political case which the new government has to review. It was not only me, was like 80 or even 100 people, the judges, people who...

They just didn't want to apply to the government policy of total obedience and they just wanted to say that they don't accept breaking the rule of law. So a lot of people have traveled that time. Fortunately it finished and now we have also new election in one month. The president will be elected. Hope that it will be the president who represents the democratic values.

And currently the situation is normal, but absolutely yes. That part of politics, which I said at the beginning, kicked my ass very strong because it caused that my divorce took eight years because of involvement of politics, which is complete nonsense. In a normal country, if you ask me, this doesn't happen. a democratic country, there are judges. This is the separate independent system. Nobody can influence your...

Dylan Pathirana (34:49.987)
Wow.

Tomasz Misiak (35:03.868)
the private staff. Moreover, it is forbidden because it's illegal to use political power to try to involve into the private situation between two people. Yes, but okay, it is also the good lesson that nothing is given forever and even the freedom we are so happy to have in Poland could be lost if we don't properly care about the system, about the democratic values, about...

what you are really thinking the free country should be. And I believe that the presence in native Europe for Poland was a very, very strong support for democratic values. In other way, probably will be like Hungary, Belarus or Turkey, which are far away from a democratic countries as I can see.

Dylan Pathirana (35:56.078)
Thomas, do you ever consider going back to politics?

Tomasz Misiak (36:00.012)
Absolutely not. It's like... No, no, no. I tell you why. It's very simple. When you're in politics, you have a chance to be the leader of the party, maybe the minister. But look how fast politicians are burned. There are, I don't know, two, maybe three, four, five people who can survive longer. Most of the politicians leave two cadences.

Dylan Pathirana (36:01.838)
You

Tomasz Misiak (36:28.798)
and they are just the memory and they have a trouble because as you said very often they are this politician signed person with difficulties to start business, to do anything because they are afraid of being attacked usually. And now we are going into the era of artificial intelligence, of new technology. When the real power

is going to innovate when you can really change the world through creating something new when you can really build something which can help your community, your business, your country. From Poland we have an amazing company called Eleven Labs. A couple of young guys created a 4 billion dollar company but it doesn't matter that they created a 4 billion dollar company. They created the place where in the future probably you can

build the whole library of voices of your family. So think that your father or my father who already passed away and I'm not able to record his voice, but my father could speak with me his voice through system like AI. I will do it for sure with my mother. I'm planning to record her because as you know now we will have this

Dylan Pathirana (37:36.812)
Wow.

Dylan Pathirana (37:44.206)
well.

Tomasz Misiak (37:55.25)
avatars possibility to build so if you record someone for two hours speaking about history and then you upload its mail and so whatever then you have the digital simulation of someone who are very close to and okay don't you want to show your grandparents you in the future where you probably will be all in the long perspective we all die but

Dylan Pathirana (38:16.992)
Absolutely.

Tomasz Misiak (38:23.82)
You will have the direct contact. I have a couple of these old photos from my grandparents, but nothing behind. And then you can speak with these people. It is amazing. It's not changing the world really. So that's why I'm preferring to be involved in such activities, being active in venture capital company, being active in technological business, than being in politics. Politics will follow the innovation in my opinion.

Dylan Pathirana (38:40.46)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (38:46.22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I want to move to that transition, going from business and politics into more of an investor role. And I know you've started your own fund, the MISIAC fund. Can you tell us a little bit about the goal there?

Tomasz Misiak (39:03.82)
Yes, it was interesting because in 2019 when we this hairstyle takeover of the company, we literally finished our work. So I was completely shocked. They just fired us from our supervisory board, company we created, we built. There was a lot of action which I don't want to now go deeper, but it was not fair kind of...

action they made against us, also using the political system. And we just started from the beginning. So I decided to create the family fund. I asked my son, was at that time finishing very early business school, to join me. I asked a couple of my friends. And we started to build the business from scratch. And we are really able to rebuild it.

and the company we created from that time, first of all, I knew that we have to divide in different sectors, but this company is now employing more than 11,000 people. So it was like five, six years we needed in the group of friends, partners to rebuild these businesses. And my second activity I also understood

that the business will change. Why I understood it? I went to the program of Singularity University by Peter Diamandis and I am the guy who is attending his Abundance Summit for some time in person now on a digital observation. But I started to understand how quickly everything evolves. And this curve of exponential growth, it's not only the story, it's the reality which is happening.

We observe it in artificial intelligence for sure. My family found invested in VC, who invested in other companies, and we started to create here the group of companies who are focusing on innovation. And it's really going on. Now I strongly believe that there is a time to still invest in that kind of companies.

Tomasz Misiak (41:24.374)
to still observe very closely what they do. By the way, 11labs was visiting our fans. Unfortunately, our team did not accept them, so we are not so happy. And a lot of fans in Poland are not so happy. But we believe that the next 11labs is just around the corner. Still, part of my involvement now, I am the venture partner of...

Dylan Pathirana (41:34.574)
Wow.

Dylan Pathirana (41:45.71)
For sure.

Tomasz Misiak (41:53.548)
one of the very interesting funds, is the ecological fund. They call them Monti's Capital. And it is amazing because they want to invest in everything connected to the ecological change which can happen in Europe. And by the way, it's huge because if you look at the convergent events of the old technology are coming. Convergence, I mean, you have the AI, but you have the AI creation of new materials.

Then you have the AI creation of new solution, of the new system, of distribution of energy. Poland, Europe, we absolutely must change our energetic system. So I believe that being present in such impact for solution and funds and being not only like money driven, but mostly my knowledge driven, it's very important. I meet a lot of young people having great ideas.

But the point is that being young, they are the same like I used to be in Circus. They trust, they believe, and they didn't have the failure. And if you don't have the failure, sometimes you make too many mistakes. So we are trying to construct smart money funds. We are trying to help young Polish companies to go in a proper way and build their wealth, their solution, their impact in the world. And I think it's much more valuable than being in politics.

This is the part of my activity. And I, of course, the very active member of the business community here. My idea was to create the Polish Business Entrepreneurs Council, which now became the counterpart of Polish government to change the regulations. of course, it's a huge team. Like we are working now like 300 people, experts, the companies, entrepreneurs.

But still, idea behind this was very powerful. It was created in a small group of friends that we wanted to have some change according to what happened before in Poland. And we wanted come back to entrepreneurship and the power of entrepreneurship in Poland rather than a tatistic, nationalistic narration which was presented by the former government.

Dylan Pathirana (44:15.052)
And given, know, you're an active investor, what do you think are the key characteristics of successful founders?

Tomasz Misiak (44:22.732)
It's strange I can tell you now because for the last 10 years, okay maybe not 10 years, until 2020, this is the statistic, it's not only my knowledge. The most successful people in the startups were people who already had experience, they they meet 30, 40, they worked probably for some big advisory company, UI or PwC or McKinsey.

They, or either they had success in the career in the big tech companies and then they left these companies and started to do their own business. Now it's changing. Now we are coming back to the same situation we had in 2020. In 2020, we called them the garage company because everybody can start the company. It was the beginning of the technological change and all generation of even McKinsey's or others didn't understand what internet is.

It's like a new wave. So now it's the same situation. We have the new wave of technology, which is not all generation which understand it very easily. So we have this 20, 25 years old people who are starting the businesses and democratization of the service because you have the access for $20 or maximum $200 to open AI to all of the LLMs to all of the stable diffusion.

So it's just an idea and the access to the market, which is also democratized, that you can create the company. So the barriers very, very, very go down. Moreover, before you needed to have $5 million, $10 million. Now we can start to the company with, I don't know, $100,000 to just prove of concept and then get billions of dollars. Because if you look at the runs of the AI company are getting $5 billion, $4 billion.

Dylan Pathirana (46:06.446)
You

Tomasz Misiak (46:18.4)
So I'm saying, my God, it's like a budget to my city, what's going on there. But still, remember, probably they are not mistaken. They know what they are investing. So that's why this wave come. I don't know if have listened yesterday or the day before, Eric Schmidt during that AI in 2025, he said that we are completely unprepared for what is coming.

Dylan Pathirana (46:21.614)
You

Tomasz Misiak (46:47.66)
because there is no economical model which can now calculate for us what does it mean 30 % growth of all of the businesses and what does it mean that we can 30 % faster rise our task that all of this AI is coming and companies still don't understand how it will fast change and the agents are coming and if the agents are coming

Yesterday I had a discussion with my friend from Big Logistics Company. He employs 800 people. And I asked him, do you use AI? And he answered, no, we are thinking about this. And I asked him, you have 800 people. Tell me please, how many times your agents have contact with other human? Oh, all the time. How do they do it? Email,

Sometimes some documentation rarely called. So I told him, so why do you believe that such contact like an email and sometimes call can be not automated fully by AI. Moreover, this AI will speak with your voice calling to anyone to try to set up any deal or close the transaction. And then he started to think.

Yes, we are in the moment when there is no needed direct contact between humans. Probably this will deeply be pushed by AI agents and it is not coming in five years. It is coming right now, 2025, 2026. People are completely not understanding the situation. They are not listening to it and moreover, they treat it as a science fiction.

Dylan Pathirana (48:30.252)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Tomasz Misiak (48:42.956)
But for the science fiction, only in 2025, $400 billion will support this stories. $400 billion. I'm talking about the robotics, AI, data centers.

Dylan Pathirana (48:57.366)
And you've called yourself the AI, an AI evangelist. And I, you've, you've just mentioned it there, you know, agentic AI. Are there any other things that you think are going to drive the future of AI or where do think it's going to end up?

Tomasz Misiak (49:14.92)
Yes, the second part I mentioned already humanoid robots or robots as so If you look at the curve of exponential grow and you know that there is at minimum 15 companies with billions of dollars of financing and all of these companies are testing the new technology which was also revealed by Jensen and video CEO during his last

couple of months presentations that he created something which is called physical intelligence. So it's not only ELM communicating with us, but he created this free computer system when LLM is connected to understanding of our physical world. Of course, here we are still probably a little bit behind the digital AI, but only a little bit.

All of the information which are showed publicly says that this year the production of physical robots will be around 500,000. But the prediction are, and it is prediction done by Tesla, that until 2040, so we are thinking just about 15 years. Remind yourself what have to done 15 years ago. It's not so difficult. I remember I was on Ibiza, I was playing with friends, I was in Senna, so I still remember.

Dylan Pathirana (50:35.148)
Yep. Yep.

Dylan Pathirana (50:38.83)
Yeah

Tomasz Misiak (50:42.188)
15 years from now, 10 billion humanoids robots will cooperate with us in our houses, in our factories. Yes, 10 billion. People are 8 billion, 200 million or something like that. So if you look at the size of the coming change, it's really how we as a society, as a companies, as managers, we're adopted.

Dylan Pathirana (50:47.875)
Wow.

Tomasz Misiak (51:11.092)
what we should do because of course I don't believe that we'll lose our jobs. I believe that we will be upgraded. Not in the meaning that someone will connect us to the computer but it's also brain computer interface parts which is in discuss but we will have the full support in every our action where it's needed. The task we don't like, the hard work we didn't have.

to do and in my opinion this is the great what is coming but the fast adoption and understanding of this process is very difficult and the question is how we should already be prepared. I'm trying to do this. I'm starting with this part of development of myself and self-education. I'm starting, I'm attending a lot of digital conferences, I'm listening to

to YouTube channels, to the top smart people. And I'm trying to connect all of these dots, believe me, not easy, because we are linear and this is going to happen in ultra fast way. But on the other hand, everybody have to... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, please, please.

Dylan Pathirana (52:22.35)
Do you think... Sorry, go ahead, go ahead, Thomas. I was gonna ask, do you think we ever compete with robots? Because I mean, I remember when we were kids, we watched movies, right? We have robots and you don't even know they are robots and you have competitions.

Tomasz Misiak (52:45.324)
I recommend you something. Buy yourself access to Peter Diamandis' Abundance Program. It is like $999 for full access, which by the way, to be present in person costs $20,000. So the value for money you have great. And then there is a lot of people for the last few years who are coming to his Abundance Program and...

telling about what they do in their laboratories, what they think about current world and where the world is going. Because they are the people who are really managing this technology. Yesterday I listened because I'm listening it's part by part, listen Mo Govdat, the former DeepMind Google employee, and Mo said something interesting that we are in a very difficult situation. Why? Superintelligence is coming. So...

Superintelligence can be smarter by us two times, ten times, maybe one thousand times. But does it really matter? The question is if intelligence is bad or good. He said intelligence is not bad or good, but the question is how it will be used. So we have to have the guardrails of this intelligence because if someone like a big businessman

or politician, we have the power of superintelligence smarter than any human on earth in his pocket. How he can use it? How we can protect ourselves? And there is a lot of questioning in this system, especially that big corporations are not controlled on what they are doing. They are going faster and faster because they believe that who has this sand grail of AI will win the war.

which probably is very true. But if you are listening to Harari, to GovDat, then you understand that we have to be very careful. Because even currently, what is the Harari Nexus book describing, currently whatever you listen, whatever you do, whatever your opinion you have, you think it is your opinion. But you're all the time, feeded by AI. It's AI giving you what you are listening, what you...

Tomasz Misiak (55:12.308)
want to listen what you are watching and of course even if you think that you can just reject it not everybody can and AI starts to become like an error it's everywhere but you don't see it

Dylan Pathirana (55:27.938)
Yeah, I really liked that. And I suppose, you know, if you were to look back on your journey and then also look towards the future, what's some advice that you would give to the future change makers?

Tomasz Misiak (55:40.79)
The advice is constantly educate yourself. Don't ever believe that you know everything. Always try to educate also your friends, partners and people around you. Don't leave anybody behind. Try to convince people that world is changing very fast. But also remember that demons of the past

are next to us because we can believe in a beautiful bright future and then Russia attacks Ukraine and everybody starts to focus on something else than bright future. That's thinking about the protection. In the Maslow theory, the safety is first, the development is somewhere further. you can, being human is for the centuries, our life was always a danger.

So it still is. And moreover, take care about yourself. I also strongly believe that this longevity theory is not theory anymore. Where just in a short time, probability that we'll live, I don't know, 120 maybe longer, because of the changes in biology, digital biology, corvanges of the whole new technological structures.

Dylan Pathirana (56:53.294)
Absolutely.

Tomasz Misiak (57:07.668)
and cooperation between the biologists and the IT guys can cause that we will live longer. So it's not my sentence, but I love this sentence from Ray Kurzweil who said, don't kill yourself for the next 12 years because maybe we will live forever. And of course you are smiling. I am smiling because we cannot imagine it's possible. The point is I ask you,

Would you believe in 2015, by the way, no one from the industry believed that in 2024 you will have AI who will pass Turing test and you will be not able to understand if you speak with AI or with human. And it happens. It happens. So why we don't believe and we smile about this longevity? Maybe we should not. Christ is happening, alpha fault.

Dylan Pathirana (57:54.104)
Yeah. No one would have believed it.

Tomasz Misiak (58:05.202)
got Nobel Prize for creating the proteins and the first time that not biologists but IT guys got the Nobel Prize. in biology that change is coming. So how to adopt, how to observe it? And on the other hand, we are humans. We love vacation, we love to live, we love to destroy ourselves.

Dylan Pathirana (58:18.51)
You

Dylan Pathirana (58:25.262)
Mm.

Tomasz Misiak (58:35.21)
and we call it pleasure. It's difficult to be human.

Dylan Pathirana (58:35.278)
Yeah, so yeah, interesting. Yeah, true. So talking about you, Thomas, what's your legacy? How do you want others to remember you?

Tomasz Misiak (58:52.972)
It's difficult to say, but I think that I want to be remembered as a person who always was proactive, positive, smiling and trying to build the good people around myself and trying to connect societies and trying to develop in the best way whatever was my close environment, companies and friends.

Because to be fair, I'm investing a lot of my time into my friendships, into my companies, a lot of time for free. I don't have to be rich, I can die poor, but dying I want to smile. Or I hope I will not die because of this longevity.

Dylan Pathirana (59:42.798)
I love that. like it. Yeah. And I suppose looking back on this journey that we've spoken about today, do you feel successful?

Tomasz Misiak (59:52.714)
Yes, I feel successful. I had ups and downs. I lot of good energy during that time. I made a lot of interesting adventures from my life. coming to the beginning of our discussion, when you asked me what success is, yes, in the game called life, I'm still playing and going to the next levels. So by definition, I think it's fine.

If I am healthy, if I can play, if every day I can wake up and think, my God, what's the day brings and how I should apply it to my life. That's amazing. okay. Look also from that perspective. Some of the people very focused on money. Money is important, but how the abundance of technological world change from our point of view.

What is the difference between top richest guy and a regular hardworking guy? The travel? Okay, plane is the same. Either it's more space in the plane. The hotels are the same. So any person can go to the hotel, but probably smaller room. So we're just speaking about the difference in privacy and size.

than different in quality of service. Because the quality of service probably so democratized that you, me, we are living better than King of France in 19th century. We have antibiotics, we have doctors, we have cars, we have toilets. They don't have, they didn't have toilets. So why not to be happy? So we are living really in the best time of the history of humanity. Still, my...

Dylan Pathirana (01:01:31.479)
Absolutely.

Dylan Pathirana (01:01:37.186)
Yeah

Very true. Yep. Absolutely.

Tomasz Misiak (01:01:50.156)
therapist asked me because sometimes I'm going to my psychologist just to exchange ideas and she also asked me You have a lot of troubles connected to your private life. So how do you overwork it? And I say myself It's very simple and to her When I started to have bad Feelings and I started to go into some depression thinking

Then I ask myself, you were born here, you have a huge opportunity to go outside with new people who have fun, and look at the people 600 kilometers from you in Ukraine, where they are bombarded, destroyed, killed. They're young people dying on the war. So really, it matters that you have a problem in your family or that your client scream at you or you lost some money.

It is nothing. It's a little thing. So everything is the perspective. And this perspective is very, important.

Dylan Pathirana (01:02:51.042)
These are little things, right? Yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (01:02:57.09)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, Thomas, this has been an incredibly insightful discussion and you know, you've done so many incredible things in your journey. So I'm really glad that we got to sit down and have this conversation. But while we've been talking, I've been jotting down some ingredients, which I think have built a successful life for you. And I'd like to share them. The first one is you choose your own path. And I think you mentioned a few times there where

You could have followed what everyone else was trying to do. Follow the crowd essentially, but you decided to know your own values, know yourself and just follow your own instinct and do your own thing. And I think that's really set you apart because otherwise you would have just ended up like everyone else. And you've managed to build an incredible, successful life because you followed your own path. That's a true leadership. And then the next one is continuous learner.

I mean, you're, you're so hungry for knowledge and it's been so clear throughout this discussion, you know, talking about AI, talking about robots, talking about gene sequencing, like there's been so many different topics, which you clearly know very deeply. And I think that comes from this hunger to learn and go into programs like Harvard and always just investing time and energy into learning. And I think that develops you and opens you up, opens doors as well for you for the future.

The next is resilience. You've been knocked down so many times, whether it's been in business or in politics, but you still managed to get up and keep going and keep getting at it. And, know, I think most people, if they suffered some of the events that you went through would have just, you know, given up and said, I gave it a crack, but you kept going. And I think that's resulted in, in where you are today. And the last one is you have a very much a give back mentality.

whether it was the reason you went into politics to create a better country and give back to the people of Poland or whether it's now, you know, giving time and mentorship to young founders, you're always trying to give back to others. And I think that does, does a lot of good for yourself and also your community. And also you see the success is not your success, also your community, people around you, not just you winning.

Dylan Pathirana (01:05:23.242)
everyone else to win together, right? So which is an awesome trait for a successful person.

Tomasz Misiak (01:05:29.337)
I fully agree, success tastes better in group, like wine.

Dylan Pathirana (01:05:33.59)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Thomas, thank you so much for spending some time with us today and having this really insightful conversation. Yeah. And for, those listening, if you found something insightful for today, would mean the world. If you could follow or subscribe to us on whichever platform you're listening to this on right now. And you can see all of our episodes over on our website, the quest for success podcast.com. And with that, we'll see you guys in the next episode. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Hey, that was awesome.

Tomasz Misiak (01:05:39.518)
My pleasure. Thank you very much.

Tomasz Misiak (01:06:00.694)
Thank you very much.

Dylan Pathirana (01:06:03.543)
I can't believe we went over Avah. Yeah, thank