Why This CEO Meditates Every Morning (And You Should Too) - Dheerajj Agarwaal

In this episode of The Quest for Success Podcast, we sit down with Dheerajj Agarwaal - co-founder and CEO of VSynergize AI - to explore how he fused entrepreneurial ambition with mindfulness and social impact to create a more holistic version of success. From facing early life challenges in India to becoming a leading voice in empathetic AI and meditation, Dheerajj’s story is one of resilience, transformation, and inner clarity.

Dheerajj opens up about moving to the U.S. with a dream, building a global business, and learning that success goes beyond wealth - it’s about happiness, service, and balance. He shares how meditation became a cornerstone of his leadership, why he believes AI should be used to reduce isolation, and how he integrates ethical values and mental wellness into his business and life.

This episode offers a refreshing perspective for entrepreneurs, tech leaders, and seekers alike - reminding us that in a fast-moving world, clarity of mind might just be our greatest edge.
 
Key Takeaways
 - Success is a combination of material and personal fulfillment
 - Early challenges shaped Dheerajj’s entrepreneurial mindset
 - AI can be a tool for connection, not just efficiency
 - Breathwork and meditation build resilience and emotional intelligence
 - Business growth thrives on ethics, honesty, and team support
 - Leadership requires mental clarity and self-discipline
 - Technology can coexist with mindfulness when used consciously
 - Meditation transforms people from needing help to offering it
 - Social impact and purpose elevate the entrepreneurial journey
 - True success includes health, relationships, and peace of mind

Connect with Dheerajj Agarwaal: linkedin.com/in/vsynergizeceodheerajagarwaal

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Transcript

Dylan Pathirana (01:59.723)
All right. Welcome back to the quest for success podcast. And thanks so much for tuning in once again today. I'm really looking forward to this conversation because you know, we've had quite a few entrepreneurs. We've had, know, some authors, we've had people from all different walks of life, but today we've got a really special guests on today. And that is Dheeraj Agarwal, who is the co-founder and CEO of vSynergize AI.

which is an AI driven consumer experience solution provider. And he's also an art of living teacher, which I'm sure many people don't know what that is, but I'm really keen to dive in and explore some of that. So I went to a Harvard business school to study business. And while I was there, I had the privilege of meeting the Araj and I got to learn to meditate. And that's a something that you never expected going to business school and learn. And

And I'm so excited today having a chat with Dheeraj and just to understand his business as well as more into controlling your mind and what we learned together at the Harvard Business School. So thank you so much, Dheeraj, joining us today.

Dheerajj (03:13.169)
I think it's my privilege and honor and I'm very grateful that you guys have me. Jam, it's always a pleasure speaking to you and Dylan, great to meet you.

Dylan Pathirana (03:22.712)
So Dheeraj, this conversation is all about success. And so we need to start with something very fundamental. And that is what does success actually mean to you?

Dheerajj (03:34.216)
So success is, I think, defying for me is like material success as well as success in life.

Material success is okay, you have the best of everything in the world and obviously you need to aspire to do that but that cannot only be the milestone or the measurement of success in life I think. If that was the case then all the super rich people would have been very happy and we know that there's so much depression at all levels of the society. So success means an undying smile, a confidence that no one can take away from you and believing in yourself that wherever you stand

today or tomorrow you can rebuild it again and you know having the compassion having the generosity being able to smile despite the challenges of life I think that's what I've learned as success to be

Dylan Pathirana (04:26.638)
That's amazing. That's really a very holistic definition of success, which I really like. And I suppose for us to understand the man who's sitting in front of us today, we really need to go back to your early context and understand a bit about how you were shaped. So can you take us through your early life and how you think it's shaped who you've become today?

Dheerajj (04:44.691)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for that question. I've really faced challenges throughout my life and especially in my early days. was not, you know, I was a good student then I turned out to be a not very good student. Then I got back on track. So I had a lot of challenges during my teen years. I got into wrong company. Not that I did wrong things, but I was not so focused in studies. But then I took a gap and then I came back to studies and then I topped the university. And, you know, then I went to the U.

did my masters over there but there's always some fear in my life that you know what's gonna happen the fear of unknown was always very prevalent in my mind at the same time I always knew that I'm an entrepreneur I believe in creating jobs I need to do that so I got a opportunity to do an internship in US India Business Council during my masters and they said hey we can't pay you because we don't pay interns and I was a student I was living off you know working on campus and

paying my own bills. So like, okay, okay, it's okay, don't pay me but give me an opportunity that that can really shape me as an entrepreneur that can really give me the next wave that you know, I can ride upon and they're like, okay, come over and there is where I got to meet a lot of people. There was a lot of delegation, industry delegations that came upon I met with people I understood that offshoring and IT is the new wave that that India is going to catch up upon and then I started a company in the US as a

student on campus. I started networking, going to conferences which were very expensive. I did not have the money to attend those conferences, but I would go ahead and request the people over there, hey, I'm a student, please let me in, please let me in. And sometimes they would feel sympathy towards me like, okay, take him in. And I met a few people, I backed my first contract.

And then I bought a ticket to come back home with that money and I gave this is good. And then let me learn the business that that's how I built it. And since then, it's been growing. And of course, I've had the entrepreneurial challenges in between. got defocused. But but but coming back again and again to what I need to do is is is an ongoing journey. And I'm still exploring that.

Dylan Pathirana (06:58.08)
Yeah, so Dheeraj, you went your journey very fast, but I want to go a little bit back. And so your parents, are they coming from any entrepreneurial background or like, you know, can you take us to the very early childhood?

Dheerajj (07:13.169)
Yeah, so sorry for rushing through. So yeah, my dad is a small entrepreneur, but you know, he had his challenges in terms of finances. There was some debt at home and his business was not doing so well. So those were some fears that had caught up to me during the early days.

Dylan Pathirana (07:15.116)
No, no, that's alright.

Dylan Pathirana (07:37.806)
Okay, so did you learn anything from your dad's business what he was doing and you thought well I might do it better or I might do it differently?

Dheerajj (07:50.16)
Yes, I learnt not from his business per se, but I learnt business skills in terms of dealing with people.

dealing with debtors, handling negotiations. My family, my uncles also run business. So I would go and be a part of their businesses, not as an employee, not as a partner, just going and helping them and understand what's going on in business. Because that entrepreneurial drive was always there and I always wanted to do something big.

Dylan Pathirana (08:24.686)
And I suppose were there any other, like aside from business values, were there any values that you got from either of your parents that you think have shaped who you are today?

Dheerajj (08:31.955)
Yes, yes, I got values of ethics of, you know, I'll give you a small example. I went to a grocery store with my mom when I was a kid and the grocer ended up giving me more money and I was feeling happy. He gave me more money than he's supposed to. I told my mom, my mom said, that's not correct. You have to go and give it back to the grocer. So I learned ethics and honesty from my mom. I learned some things from my dad's mistakes in terms of what I should

not do and you know always had the family bonding and values in terms of growing up and trying to be a part of the family challenges and trying to see how we can always come back as a family.

Dylan Pathirana (09:19.502)
So what exactly you studied at university?

Dheerajj (09:24.363)
I studied commerce and then I went to MBA to Boston. I did MBN finance there.

Dylan Pathirana (09:27.009)
huh.

Dylan Pathirana (09:33.432)
So what inspired you to get into entrepreneurial, like entrepreneurship?

Dheerajj (09:40.306)
I think that was always the inner drive and the environment that I grew up in. was only entrepreneurs around, my cousins, my dad. It was always about building businesses, creating jobs. So I think it was a part of my growing up journey.

Dylan Pathirana (10:00.109)
And I want to understand your transition to the U S and how, like now looking back on it, how important do you think that journey over to the U S was?

Dheerajj (10:09.351)
Yeah, absolutely. before that, I'll just share a little bit of my failure stories because I was really trying very, very hard. You know, I tried to be a partner with one of my cousins in this real estate firm. It did not work well for me. Then I invested a small amount of money in a manufacturing unit, which was not doing so well. There's something called as a sick unit. the financials are not working. It's like, you know, the distress sale. So I tried to invest money in that, but I did not know.

manufacturing. So the original founder was taking me for a ride. I did lose some money over there. But like now what do I do? You know, what are the options? And like, let me go to the US and try to figure out something over there. Let me see if I can do an executive management program or an MBA and see what I can learn from there. So I think coming to the US was a part of bringing a paradigm shift in my life. What was like the turning point. And that really helped me learn more, know, improve my

perspectives, broaden my vision and you know I always had strong values so I believe in what my Guru says, says broaden your vision and deepen your roots so I deep roots but the US gave me a broader vision.

Dylan Pathirana (11:24.174)
And what was that kind of time in the U S like for you? Because I imagine, you know, coming from, you know, a small town and India's like, I suppose it's entrepreneurial spirit was still awakening. Whereas in the U S it was quite advanced. What was that like for you?

Dheerajj (11:42.654)
So I took a student loan to pay for my MBA.

And it was definitely challenging, but I never thought that, you know, hey, I'm going to settle for a job. It was always about being an entrepreneur. What can I take back? That was one thing my dad told me before I went to the U.S. Like go to the U.S. It's okay, but always see what opportunities you can create between the two countries. What can you bring back home? So my vision and, you know, while my, you know, nothing bad about it, while my colleagues would be partying, I would be thinking, what do I need to do? You who can I meet? You know, what can I do?

in terms of networking, what are the opportunities that can really make me, you know, start a business and see how I can create more opportunities for myself and create more jobs.

Dylan Pathirana (12:28.28)
So while you're studying your MBA, you obviously saw a problem that you can solve, right? So that's how you created this technology sourcing business. So what was the exactly the defining moment you realized this is a great opportunity that I can do?

Dheerajj (12:48.061)
Yeah, so I used to think, you know, like, and that is what is happening now. I think I've been blessed with a vision, but sometimes I've been a little ahead of my time and that has also not done so well because the vision and the timing should go hand in hand. That's what I believe and I realized from my experiences of the past. You know, talking about the first opportunity, like when I networked and I got my first client. Trust me, Jam, I did not know how to build the client.

I did not know what that looks like and I didn't know if it is a per hourly fee because I was not used to a per hourly model in India. It used to be like, you you get a job done and you get paid. So I got my first opportunity. It was to outsource 10 customer service reps to India. And he said, I'm going to pay you $13 an hour per person. And then I went on the back end, you know.

did some research connected with people in India and then I said, hey, I'll give you $8 an hour per person.

and I made a margin of $5 per person per hour and 10 people. So I was making $50 an hour in the early 2000s and that was good money as a student. I like, hey, this is good business, but I was very involved. was trying to learn what this is and I knew that, okay, this is going to be difficult because it involves a lot of human resource capabilities. So like, let me get closer to the customer.

Dylan Pathirana (13:53.739)
ice.

Dheerajj (14:16.069)
understand what the customer wants and then I can always build the backend.

Dylan Pathirana (14:21.528)
So what was that early moment like? You were in US and then you have to find people in India. How did you go about? You have to have a partner there, right?

Dheerajj (14:35.281)
Yeah, the internet was doing well, it was, I mean, we didn't have internet on the phone and everything, but I got lucky, you know, I put some messages on India Mart and I don't think LinkedIn was also so prevalent at that point of time. Yeah, sent some emails and then I got lucky in finding a good partner. I think that was the easy part for me.

Dylan Pathirana (14:48.887)
Yeah, okay.

Dylan Pathirana (14:57.334)
And what age were you when, when this all happened?

Dheerajj (15:00.273)
I was like 20, 27, 26, 27, yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (15:06.2)
And then what was kind of the next stage? Like, is this the early kind of founding story of, of what is now today V Synergize?

Dheerajj (15:13.287)
know, we synergize is try to, you know, pivot.

Sometimes people told me, hey, you need not just be focused on the US market. You need to have, you know, what if the US dollar crashes? And that again put a fear in my mind. Okay, let me build something in India as well. I tried to do something in India in the animation industry, animation training, but that was like defocusing from my core business. And that really bombed. I lost a lot of money, lost lot of time over there and then came back to my core business and then took it from there. So I've learned from my mistakes firsthand.

I lost money and came back again and again and you know

It's tough, right? It's tough at the same time. It's very opportunistic as well. So constant business development, constantly getting new clients. And in fact, last year also we had a small challenge, small or bigger challenge, whatever we call it. One of my biggest clients defaulted in a huge bill and that money is still owed. like, hey, I cannot stop. I have to keep going. And fortunately, talking about vSynergize,

Dylan Pathirana (15:56.526)
Mm-hmm.

Dheerajj (16:23.859)
you asked me terms of the challenges. You know, I knew a couple of years back that AI is going to come and disrupt my business. So like instead of, you know, having the fear of AI, can I embrace AI and create more opportunities out of it? And that is really paying off now.

Dylan Pathirana (16:40.462)
And before we kind of get to the AI piece, I know through my research, it looks like you have an incredible amount of employees. It's like more than 1200. Can you take us through that kind of journey to scaling your business from, from zero to 1200 employees?

Dheerajj (16:56.295)
Yeah, yeah. So it's been, I would say, you know, I've had some really good clients and a very good team. The founding team, you my founding employees or my peers are still with me and they've really grown into the ranks. I am not so, earlier it used to be very tough because, know, working late hours in the night in the U.S., in India, managing U.S. business at the same time, looking at family used to be kind of imbalanced in life. But with a good team, I've been able to do that.

And we really grew during the pandemic time. We got a lot of business during pandemic. So I feel, you know, we got very lucky that there were so many people struggling with their businesses and jobs and whatnot. And we got so much business during that time. And we kept on adding people, built some solid processes. We have a lot of good domain expertise. We know the business really well. And now we're really looking to grow it further on from here.

Dylan Pathirana (17:53.711)
So, dear Raj, you were in US initially when you started the business. But then did you come back to India and how did you manage that relationship with initial US customers?

Dheerajj (18:09.555)
Yes, yes, yeah, I did come back to India, but there was a lot of travel every alternate month or every two months. I would travel to the US and stay there and come back. But it was definitely not easy. You know, so we tried to build teams in the US, but that did not work out and they were like really expensive salaries at that point of time. We could not afford those at that point of time. But because of our deliverables, our clients stuck to us and you know, a lot of our clients grew and you know,

as what we are today. But it was not so easy. But now we are able to really manage it because, I mean, the world has become a smaller place because of technology and now it is seamless.

Dylan Pathirana (18:48.844)
Yeah, So tell us bit more about your business. So your business is more, you said that you needed some resources for call centers. Apart from that, what are the services that you provided?

Dheerajj (19:04.337)
Yeah, so we purely started with inbound customer service.

for telecom companies, satellite companies, wireless companies in the US. And they would also want us to do some outbound sales. So we also build some expertise and people around outbound calling, outbound outreach, prospecting, lead generation. And then we started getting a lot of orders from fortune companies as well for their content syndication, for their lead generation, for the appointment setting. And that was really doing well until pandemic.

post pandemic people were not at their desks and so getting in touch with people over the phones was getting more and more difficult. So we again pivoted back and started focusing towards customer experience, customer service. So talking about our core business, is inbound customer service. We do a lot of inbound tech support. Of course, we have an omni-channel approach and you know, with technology now, know, some people have, you know, the accents as a mental block.

in their mind. So now there is technology which converts accents real-time into US accents. So sometimes as and when needed we use that. So the core business still revolves around creating a superior customer experience and you know creating data points for maximizing revenue.

Dylan Pathirana (20:28.846)
I want to go now to your shift to AI adoption. What was that first like early sign that you saw that made you think, yeah, we need to get on board this AI train.

Dheerajj (20:40.389)
So I think because of my meditation, I have some good intuition that there is some change that needs to...

be done and I really believe that you technology needs to evolve every five years but now with AI it could be five weeks also. So you know a couple of years back like what can I do? So we used to do quality control of all the calls you know so someone would listen to all the calls that were recorded and then they would do manual scoring and like let me see what we can do in terms of automation. So we made a platform to you know

record those calls, transcribe those calls, do sentiment analysis. And then we sold that to some customers and we learned what the customers want. And slowly and gradually we've been adding more and more features. And that's been the AI story so far. And I'm happy and privileged and grateful also to share that we are in the front runner space. You know, I was in Vegas last month.

actually before I went for my Harvard program unit three, I was in Vegas March 9th attending a conference. And I realized that we are really out there in terms of being a front runner in this space. And whatever I was thinking was not like I was, I was sometimes by soothing, am I hallucinating? Am I really, you know, making sense? Is this what the future is like? Of course, not everything is right, but a lot of the shots that I took and what are the decisions that I made is already showing up and

people appreciating that. that's how the AI journey has been and I think it's still a journey because there are innovations every week and we try to keep abreast in terms of what's going on and what can we implement to keep improving RCX.

Dylan Pathirana (22:28.11)
And I've read that you're, you are a leader in empathetic AI and I want to hear from you. What do you think? What does empathetic AI actually mean to you?

Dheerajj (22:39.699)
So I really feel that AI is not going to work in isolation. AI has to be combined with human expertise. So we have a slogan that we are humanizing AI and creating that empathy in AI at the same time, making sure that people have jobs. having that combination, that blend is what I really feel that we need to have that empathy towards people as well. And I think people always

Dylan Pathirana (22:52.142)
Hahaha

Dheerajj (23:09.663)
is to stay and that's how I feel about Empathetic AI. Now the AI tools that we built, they're really empathizing with people. So if you go to, we built a beautiful AI bot, which sits on your website, talks to people. We're AI for mental wellness, AI for isolation. So people come and AI is kind of counseling them. And what AI can do is like, can we transfer it to a human being who can provide you the higher level of supports that you need? So that's how I think Empathetic

AI needs to be and you know we knew that there's going to be a lot of people in our company who don't have the skills and they'll be out of jobs because AI is going to take away their jobs so we trained them on prompt engineering we made sure that their job ready for AI so I often say and many people say this that AI is not going to take away a job but the person who knows AI probably they're going to take your job

So preparing a workforce for the new wave of AI is also about Empathetic AI.

Dylan Pathirana (24:10.99)
So in terms of communicating this change to your employees, because majority of your employees, I guess, they are not coming like a tech savvy people, right? They're more call center people. And knowing that eventually they will be replaced by the technology. How do you communicate that kind of a message to a larger base of employees?

Dheerajj (24:35.355)
Yeah, so, so, know, showing them the facts, showing them data, sharing them, sharing with them what's going on. I mean, say what Sam Altman is saying or Bill Gates is saying, and what what's the research saying. So sharing it with them on company platform at the same time, making them feel comfortable that don't be scared. can be up there. You just need to polish your skills. So make sure that you're not left behind. You need to upgrade yourself. You need to polish your skills and we

can all run the race together and win this race as well.

Dylan Pathirana (25:10.254)
Do you think you've been successful doing that? you know... Yeah

Dheerajj (25:14.587)
Some people have not believed because they're like, you hey, we don't want to.

you know, we are very, I mean, lot of employees cannot even take the risk sometimes, right? They have their families to take care of. So they're like, you know, happy in their conventional jobs. they like wait and watch. Some of them have been like, okay, you know, what he's saying makes sense. So it's been a mixed response. Some people have been like, okay, let's do it. And some people have been like, no, you know, can I look for something else? And, you know, can I do continue to do whatever I'm doing? So it's not easy at the same time, it's a shared, shared.

Dylan Pathirana (25:46.519)
It's challenging.

Dheerajj (25:48.415)
mixed response that I've been getting.

Dylan Pathirana (25:49.775)
And there's another side of you, which I think we really need to talk about to understand the whole of the erage and that is your, your meditation practice and being an art of living teacher. want to understand first of all, what does art of living actually mean?

Dheerajj (26:06.257)
Hard of living means creating happy people, removing stresses from their life, showing people that there is something beyond material success.

showing people, telling people that you can be materially successful at the same time you can also be happy. So there is no trade-off between happiness and material success. It's not essential that if you are an entrepreneur or you need to make money or whatever you need to do that you have to live a stress life. Auto-Blipping is also understanding that stress is a part of life but it gives you the tools to remove that stress on a daily basis. Staying healthy and

happy is what art of living is

Dylan Pathirana (26:50.574)
So, dear Raj, when did you actually discover this art of living?

Dheerajj (26:56.147)
You know, it's a very funny story, Jayam. You know, I was a non-believer in this. I was like, I don't need all this, you know, this is...

Dylan Pathirana (27:00.436)
Mm-hmm.

Dheerajj (27:02.963)
I am coming from Boston, you know, I'm doing okay for myself. I have a car. have this. I have that. I'm doing good. Why do I need to sit and do all this? I'll do this at the age of 70, 75, and I don't have anything else to do. You know, this will be my thing to do when there's nothing to do. But my family forced me into it. My dad said, hey, you don't have anything to lose. Just three, four hours for five, six days. Go and do it, you know. So I was forced into this program.

Dylan Pathirana (27:15.084)
Yeah, that's right.

Dheerajj (27:32.87)
the Out of Limit program and the day I did the sky meditation which is a rhythmic breathing exercise, it really blew my mind. You I went into the deepest meditation. I didn't even know that this is what is meditation. It was like the deepest rest ever I experienced and after the program I'm like, hey, you I'm a changed me. You know, I was overthinking. There was so much fear. There was so much uncertainty in my mind before the program and I saw that that had gone down and then with a little bit of practice

I started seeing that I'm much more relaxed and you know, I'm not working 14 hours, but I'm at this, you know, maybe I'm working 10 hours, 8 hours, but I'm achieving maybe more. So I found myself to be more efficient, more balanced. You know, I was just married at that point of time. It was a love marriage. That's what we call it in India. It was not an arranged marriage. So the initial, you know, merging of, and we are in a joint family. So staying together, you know,

Dylan Pathirana (28:22.702)
You

Dheerajj (28:32.793)
meeting expectations of my family, my mom, my wife at the same time work pressures was taking a toll on me but Out of Living really helped me in all that you

Dylan Pathirana (28:43.796)
I think there's such a duality in that because, you know, most people, when you hear entrepreneur, it's all the hustle, the grind, but then you've got this other side of you, which is all, you know, mindful and peaceful. I want to understand kind of how, how you find the balance in that, because to me, to me, I still, I still can't see it.

Dheerajj (29:03.859)
So if you have a car, say you...

you have a car which is like a Ferrari, let's talk about a Ferrari. Okay, you have a Ferrari and that's like your favorite car and you want to go for a drive but before you're going to sit in the car the driver tells you, hey, you you can go but there are no brakes in the car. So how much ever you want to drive the car or whatever it is, you're not going to drive the car. So meditation is like that, you know, putting a brake to the, you know, constantly racing mind which is, you know, constantly racing in the future or the past and you're constantly thinking about the future.

like what's going to happen. There's so much of uncertainty that brings fear and anxiety and worry and that's anti-productive, right? At the same time, if you're thinking what happened yesterday, that's only going to bring anger, guilt, regret. Again, that is anti-productive. So meditation, Heart of Living helps you to get your mind to the present moment and there is where you can really plan better. You could be more innovative. You could be more intuitive and you'll be a better person in terms of, I'm talking about myself, you'll be a better person in terms of

Building good relationships because we really don't want to deal with people who are stressed out and are angry at the all the time, right? We want to deal with people who are pleasant and have a say on their mind. So out of living helps me do that. So I really feel there's no two sides. They complement each other and because of mindfulness, meditation, you know, I'm able to do my work also better. I'm more productive and more efficient.

Dylan Pathirana (30:31.502)
Yeah, I can understand that having a mindfulness is always work, but in a high pressure environment, Your clients, you said that something happened like, you have to more than proactive, you have to be reactive, right? You have to go and fix problems. And how do you handle that kind of a situation? Like, you know.

Dheerajj (30:54.067)
So I made a commitment to myself Jam come out to me I'm going to meditate at least two to three times a day 20 minutes it's okay. So that's my commitment and that really helps me a lot.

Like I said, last year was very challenging for me. And anyone else, I don't want to boast about this, anyone else would have been in my position, maybe they would have given up or something. But the inner strength that gets invoked because of meditation, and I think as entrepreneurs, we really need to be resilient and very, very strong. We need to have that inner strength. And that is what helps me respond to situations rather than react to situations.

Trust me, every time I reacted to a client email, I paid a price for that. So I was like, let me be more responsive than reactive and meditation helps me respond better.

Dylan Pathirana (31:48.258)
think there's a bit of a misconception around what meditation actually is. Can you tell us from your standpoint, what actually is meditation?

Dheerajj (31:57.3)
Great point, Dailin. Thank you so much for bringing that up. So a lot of people say, hey Ram, I have so many students, I'm an out of living meditation teacher. I've talked to more than 45,000 people. And when they come to me initially, they say meditation is not for me. I'm like, why? They say when I close my eyes, I get a lot of thoughts. And meditation is supposed to be without thoughts. So I say that's just a concept. Meditation can be with or without thoughts. And meditation is nothing but...

Just being...

with yourself. So what I've learned from my Guru is that there are golden principles to experience deep meditation. So if you're going to sit for meditation for 20 minutes, for 20 minutes I say, I want nothing. So dropping all your desires. After 20 minutes you can take whatever you want, but for 20 minutes I want nothing. And then I am nothing. Otherwise the barrier that I am something, I am big, I am small, again becomes an obstacle to meditation. And then third obstacle is I am meditating. I am supposed to meditate.

I am supposed to meditate. I need to see a light. I need to see something. All those are obstacles to meditation. So I am not even meditating. If meditation has to happen, it will happen.

and meditation is the most effortless act and we meditated for almost 9 months in our mother's womb. What were we doing there? We were just meditating, right? So it is natural for us to meditate. So meditation is the most effortless and the natural thing for us. So I think what you said is correct. There so many concepts around that and that is what I like about Art of Living and Gurudev Sri Sri Ravishankar is that he simplifies it and gives it to everyone that it is your right

Dylan Pathirana (33:19.648)
You

Dheerajj (33:40.469)
to be happy and you can meditate it is not difficult.

Dylan Pathirana (33:44.803)
And do you think it's become more difficult for people? Because I've been reading a book called Stolen Focus and basically the principle behind it is we live in a society now where we're so overloaded with information. We consume things at two times speed. We're pumped with social media that we basically don't have free time to think. So do you think that makes it more challenging for people to meditate because our brains have become more and more used to just consuming information always?

Dheerajj (34:13.617)
So definitely technology has its challenges and the human mind is you're saying is getting more and more.

overloaded with information and you know people are not even having sleep nowadays and there's so much of insomnia problems people have so much anxiety people have so much depression so definitely technology is playing a role in it but it is inevitable we cannot run away from technology we have to embrace technology so some simple rules is like you know don't look at your phone for at least an hour after you wake up and don't look at your phone an hour before you sleep and then there are so much so many meditation apps so what

we teach is the sky meditation. So using your breath to effortlessly going into meditation. So you know cannot handle the mind at the level of the mind. You cannot say I'm going to meditate and tell your mind hey let me focus because the nature of the mind is to do the opposite of what you say. If you say I want to look here the mind is going to say no I'm going to go there. If you close your eyes and say I don't know look at a red monkey the mind is only going to show you pictures of a red monkey. So the mind is going to resist whatever you persist.

Dylan Pathirana (35:09.422)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Dylan Pathirana (35:18.83)
That's true.

Dheerajj (35:21.437)
You know, so you need to trick the mind, you need to fool the mind and that skill is yoga, that skill is meditation and that's what we teach in the Heart of Living Sky Meditation Program and you know it becomes so effortless. So you use your breath, the breath is the bridge between the body and the mind. So you you use your breath, so some rhythmic breathing, some breathing exercises and some simple mantras can really take you into the deepest and most profound states.

of your own being.

Dylan Pathirana (35:53.379)
And on that point, it's, you know, it's so easy nowadays to just get overwhelmed by things. And if people just have, you know, two to five minutes, what, what are some of the exercises that you're speaking about? Can you share some of those with us? you know, listeners, when they, when they feel overwhelmed, shall we do a meditation session too? Yeah, yeah. love to. Yeah, let's do it. This is the first time something first time. yeah, maybe for two or three minutes.

Dheerajj (36:11.403)
we can do that if you are okay absolutely absolutely lovely I am so excited I am so excited yeah two three minutes we can do ideally it should be like 15-20 minutes but we can have a compressed version yeah so yeah

Dylan Pathirana (36:24.566)
Yeah. Yeah. Give us a bit of an example so people can understand.

Dheerajj (36:30.099)
Yeah sure, so before you sit for meditation it's good to remove the restlessness in the body. So a little bit of shaking your hands, your neck, your shoulders. There's so much of sedentary lifestyle. They say sedentary is the new smoking, right? So you can get up, your shoulders, move your neck, up, down, back, right, left. And then we can do some simple breathing exercise. And this is really nice. This is the alternate breathing.

exercise and this just balances the right and the left hemisphere of the brain in just a few minutes. So you take your right thumb and gently put it on your right nostril and second last swing on the left nostril and middle two fingers in between the eyebrows. Gently press the right and inhale from the left.

Press the left and exhale from the right.

Inhale from the right.

Exhale from the left.

Dheerajj (37:36.315)
Inhale from the left.

Exhale from the right.

Alternate breathing exercise

Dheerajj (37:53.064)
keep taking full breaths and as you keep doing you will see that the breath is getting more and more subtler your mind does not want you to this so don't listen to your mind just do it

Dheerajj (38:18.173)
Continue

Dheerajj (38:24.595)
Full inhalations and complete exhalations.

Dheerajj (39:02.054)
A few more rounds.

Dheerajj (39:30.845)
You may exhale from the left nostril and relax your hands. Keep your eyes closed.

Dheerajj (39:52.112)
Observe your breath. Take a deep long breath in. Hold the breath and slowly breathe out. Let go.

Dheerajj (40:06.393)
Incoming breath energizes the body, outgoing breath relaxes the body.

Become aware of this phenomenon.

Dheerajj (40:20.819)
Just realize that nature is giving you a gift every moment. Every incoming breath gives you energy. That's the gift of life. And every outgoing breath brings you relaxation. One more gift.

Dheerajj (40:48.435)
Keep taking deep long breaths.

and keep relaxing more and more.

Dheerajj (41:26.609)
With a smile, breathe in.

Breathe out with a bigger smile.

Dheerajj (41:36.211)
become aware of your surroundings and environment.

Dheerajj (41:43.315)
Breathe in with a big smile.

Dheerajj (41:48.227)
and let go with a bigger smile.

Dheerajj (41:58.942)
Holy, gently, taking your own time, at your own speed.

When you feel complete, you may open your eyes.

Dylan Pathirana (42:15.277)
you

Wow. Amazing. That was really good. that's, I feel like, yeah, we're in a different place altogether. That first breathing technique was something I'd never done before, but it's really good because you're focused on doing the sides that you don't really have time to think about anything else.

Dheerajj (42:39.335)
Yeah, yeah. And you know, that is really helpful. Say if you're going into a meeting or an interview or a podcast, just a few minutes of that can really, you know, get you very focused. And then all the secrets are in the breath, the breath tells you what to do when to eat, when to sleep, when to drink water, but we don't pay attention on the breath. You know, that is that is the challenge that humanity is facing. We're learning great things about AI, but we're forgetting things about breathing, you know.

Dylan Pathirana (43:08.696)
To be honest, I feel like we are in a different place altogether after the session. So, Dheeraj, how important in your personal opinion, having that mind, right, controlling mind to any business leader.

Dheerajj (43:26.107)
So I would say meditation today is not a luxury, it has become a necessity. You every entrepreneur is facing...

all sort of challenges. are all human beings, we are all vulnerable, we all have our emotions, we all have our ups and downs. No matter what people are showing on the face of it, but inside there is a small child, There is some innocence, are emotions and sometimes we are not able to handle the emotions. And life is not linear, life is ups and downs, know, challenges are there. You know, there are opportunities and challenges at the same time. So I feel that if you cannot manage your mind, you cannot manage your business, you cannot

Dylan Pathirana (43:47.086)
So do I.

Dheerajj (44:05.407)
manage your life, you cannot manage your relationships and you know if your health is not good, your relationships are not good, that's going to show up in your decisions in life, that's going to show up in your business decisions and that's going to affect your business. So I think as an entrepreneur it is extremely critical that we remain mentally sane so that we can make the right decisions and take right actions because there's so much of dependency on people on us, know, our employees, there's so much

think that we're doing our customers, you know, and we cannot afford to take wrong decisions. Not that I'm saying every decision will be correct, but at least we should attempt to make the right decision by being mentally sane.

Dylan Pathirana (44:48.174)
That's very, true. Yeah. So I just wanted to understand bit more about the art of living, right? That's an organization, right? And can you please take us through a little bit more? And then I also want to understand about your teacher that you highly regarded and you always talked about.

Dheerajj (45:01.096)
Yeah.

Dheerajj (45:08.455)
Yeah.

So, of Living is a non-governmental non-profit organization founded by global humanitarian Gurudev Sri Sri Ravishankar. He started the organization with a sinking school which had 180 schools and the school was abandoned. So, he said I am going to take responsibility of that school and that is how the Out of Living started. And today the organization is in more than 180 countries. That one school has

become more than 1200 free schools in India, giving free education to more than 110,000 kids, really underprivileged first generation literates. the vision and mission of Gurudev and the of Living is creating a stress-free, violence-free society. And he says, I want to put a smile to every face. And he says, you know, I want to share what I have. So I have a smile. I need to share that with the world. So Art of Living is all about being happy.

and spreading happiness.

Dylan Pathirana (46:11.918)
And I want to link that back to what you do at your organization. I know you have quite a big interest in social impact as well. Can you walk us through some of the things that you're doing on the social impact front?

Dheerajj (46:24.487)
yes so we adopted a lot of these children

And whatever earnings we have, a good percentage goes towards the free schools and the art of living projects. We also made a very beautiful meditation hall in the heart of the city here so that people come and meditate. Like there are salons, there are beauty parlors, there are gyms. We need to have more happiness centers. There are clubs. We need to have happiness clubs, right? So I feel our organization has taken the responsibility of building happiness centers.

Dylan Pathirana (46:49.646)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Dheerajj (46:58.94)
and our goal is can we start educating 100,000 kids every year. know, are mid-day meals, they are uniforms, they are books, they are yearly education. Can we support the Art of Living gift smile movement and start, you know, providing, making a difference in 100,000 children every year. I think education is the biggest gift that we can give to the next generation and education with values is what Art of Living is doing. So I really believe in the movement because I've seen a change in myself.

The students have come to me and you know people around me and when I go on the ground and I meet these kids they're like so enthusiastic. They really want to learn, they really want to do something. They want to be a scientist, they want to send a rocket to the moon. There are so many high dreams. So can we as an organization facilitate that? So we made that a mission of our life.

Dylan Pathirana (47:48.896)
So where are you at at the moment? How many children that you're supporting?

Dheerajj (47:52.052)
Last year we did 5,000 and now our goal is to get to at least 100,000. So I think that's one of the good things business does. It gives me the power, empowers me to share with the society and I think that's a good use of money. I think money should be used for good health, comfort of your family and share it with the society.

Dylan Pathirana (47:56.536)
Amazing.

Dylan Pathirana (47:59.992)
Yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (48:16.652)
Yeah, that's amazing. So how long you been with this, the Art of Living organization?

Dheerajj (48:21.883)
Now it's been 21 years and those 21 years have gone like this, you know, amazing.

Dylan Pathirana (48:25.996)
Wow and then you're teaching you mentioned like 40 000 plus students how that worked

Dheerajj (48:32.659)
So I thought I could never be a teacher. I didn't have confidence. But that's the beauty of Gurudev. He told me, you can be, just be. So I became a teacher. last 17 years I've been teaching.

and it's been the most rewarding and most beautiful time when someone comes depressed on the first day of the program. Not that only depressed people come, the happy people also come. Someone, some student who's had a breakup or not done so well in his studies or who's not got a job or is struggling financially, having suicidal tendencies, they come to sit with you three, four, five days, two, three hours a day. They do some breathing exercise.

and they meditate with you and on the third and fourth day they say, hey, I'm ready to help people. So the transformation I see in these programs is first day people come saying I need help and third, fourth day they become so strong, they're like I'm ready to serve the society. So I'm like this is magic, know, it's like I need to do this more and more. So every month, you know, I make it a point that wherever I go, I make people meditate, I teach people the sky meditation program because I think it is...

What I have is my responsibility to share it with people. Someone sitting next to me and if he's hungry and I have food on my plate, I cannot eat without offering. I have to share. So if I have happiness, if I have joy, as a human being it is my ethical and moral responsibility to share it with the world. And the world takes it or not is their choice, but at least I have to make it available.

Dylan Pathirana (49:56.321)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (50:08.568)
Yeah. And you mentioned early on that you're kind of merging the two of these philosophies like AI and also this, this mindfulness and kind of humanization element. Can you walk us through kind of what you're doing in that space?

Dheerajj (50:22.779)
Yeah, so so we have a wellness

company and we have plugged in AI over there. So youth is coming, talking to the AI and we're getting all the data. I think if we can scale it up, we can really understand there's so much of isolation. People don't have people to talk. They're so hooked onto social media. You see four people of a family in a car, all four are on their phones. So I feel it is a funny world. People are sitting on the dining table, not talking to each other, but sending WhatsApp messages to each other.

Dylan Pathirana (50:48.75)
Yeah.

Dheerajj (50:55.067)
on the same dining table. Where are we going? Can AI be used to at least reduce those problems, counsel people and then try to show them, hey, go do some yoga, do some meditation, be with nature, do this, do that, some counseling. So we are attempting to bring AI into mental wellness.

Dylan Pathirana (50:56.44)
You

Dylan Pathirana (51:18.562)
I want to know, because it seems like you have an incredibly well-rounded view on the world and the future. What do you think are the highest leverage opportunities for, let's say, young people today to take to get to that kind of happy and successful life?

Dheerajj (51:35.816)
So the good thing today is that the new generation, the way I am seeing them, they are not so materialistic. They are surprising that they have a holistic view, they are talking about nature, are about being eco-friendly. So that awareness level which was missing 10-15 years back, all of sudden came up. So I happy to see that. But if we can show them the path, give them the confidence, at the same time I would say they are also very vulnerable.

Dylan Pathirana (51:44.28)
Mm.

Dheerajj (52:05.759)
very non-resilient in terms of emotions. feel that happiness is, of course they are entitled to it, but they feel a lot of entitlement to lot of things and when things don't go their way, they feel very depressed. Depression is being used as a very fab word, hey I am depressed. 20 years back people will you depressed? Really what happened? But it has become so common in today's discussion that I am feeling depressed.

rest. So we need to tell them, we need to show them that depression is not natural, being happy is natural. Depression is nothing but going away from yourself and coming back to yourself is the most simplest and easiest thing. Just sit, focus on your breath and do something. We have a beautiful app called as Sattva App, S-A-T-T-V-A. Download the app and sit with the app 10 minutes a day morning, evening and you will have a new dimension to life. Life is much bigger, much broader than the

the smallest, smallest successes of life. Life has a lot of value, life is very precious. I think that is what the new generation needs to know.

Dylan Pathirana (53:15.288)
That's fascinating, I mean, we had so many different discussions. I think you've taken us to a total different direction. dear Raj, if you, like in 20 years' time, you mentioned you've been learning about this meditation for the last 21 years. But say, let's forward 20 years, right, now on. How do you want to remember you? What's your legacy?

Dheerajj (53:46.844)
I want to make an impact in the world. I want to really carry on the light of knowledge to as many people as I can.

make more and more people happy. I think that's the purpose of my life. I really want to spread more and more happiness, educate more and more people and share whatever I have as much as I can. So, you know, what I have achieved in the last 21 years, Jam, you know, today I've come to a state that I'm very content from within. At the same time, I'm ambitious. Earlier, I was very only ambitious. I was not content. So there was discontent and ambition. And that was not helping me because that was...

giving me lot of anxiety and worry. So now I am content and ambitious. So I want to ride this journey, make this more and I think the self journey is...

a very, you know, it's a ocean without a bottom. and it's a lifelong exploration. So I want to keep exploring. I think I'm still a student. I still want to learn more and more. At the same time, I want to share what I have learned with more and more people. Can I make an impact into a million lives before I leave this planet? Maybe that could be a good goal for me.

Dylan Pathirana (54:45.634)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Pathirana (55:03.02)
Awesome. really want to dive into that just quickly. You said you're still ambitious, but also content. Can you explain how that works? Because for me, ambitious is you're still wanting to achieve something. Whereas content is the lack of, of want, right? So how can you want something, but then also be lacking that desire for anything.

Dheerajj (55:23.495)
Yeah, beautiful. Nice, very nice question and very relevant. So, you know, if you see people, a lot of people, they are busy in their minds and they lazy in their hands. So they not doing action but they only thinking. So what I have learnt again from my Guru is, you know, be empty heart and be full of action and have your heart full.

You know, have love in your heart, have satisfaction in your heart, have confidence in your heart that only the best can happen with me. Only the best will happen with me.

and keep moving ahead. Write down your plans and keep working rather than only thinking about your plans. content, and I've realized when I'm more content, I get more success. When I'm more feverish, know, success runs away from you because the mind is also a magnet, you attract what you are. So when you're practicing gratitude, know, contentment, at the same time you have your plan, then you're working hard for those plans, know, success is bound to come. So the confidence is there that it'll only be success and even if things

Don't go my way, it's okay, there is something better for me. Because there is a better plan for me. Maybe I'm thinking like this, but there's a bigger plan for me. So can I be with a bigger plan? Because not everything is going to happen per my wish. And that is what again, you know, coming back to the previous question, today's generation needs to know that life is a combination of successes and failures, pleasant and unpleasant both. Sometimes things will happen your way, sometimes things will not happen your way. That is how life is for everyone. And if we learn

to adopt live will be happy and successful.

Dylan Pathirana (56:57.582)
Amazing. And is there any other parting advice that you would give our listeners?

Dheerajj (57:02.023)
Yeah we were speaking about success, know I think success is not having a big bang, bang balance and having a heart disease or a blood pressure or diabetes or spoiled relationships or you know don't make money to pay your hospital bills right or your divorce court cases. I mean that could be a part of life, I don't want to get into people's private lives but what I'm trying to say is success is a combination of everything. Good health, good relationships, good bang balance and a smile on your face and the confidence to keep moving.

Dylan Pathirana (57:16.898)
You

Yep. Yeah.

Dheerajj (57:31.957)
moving ahead.

Dylan Pathirana (57:33.368)
Yeah. And, dear Raj, we could talk all day. This has honestly been, you know, up there with one of my favorite conversations, but to wrap up looking back on your journey, do you feel successful?

Dheerajj (57:46.91)
Yes, yes, I think I'm successful and I know I'm successful and but there's lot to be done. So I'm not giving up, I'm not lazy, but I know that I've been successful at the same time there's lots more to be achieved and I can do.

Dylan Pathirana (58:05.75)
That's incredible. like, throughout our conversation, I've been jotting down a few core ingredients, which I think have been part of your journey to a successful life. And I'd like to share them with you. The first one is you're a continuous learner, whether that's going and getting your degree and then getting your MBA and then going to Harvard and going to art of living, you're, you're always seeking extra knowledge. And I think part of that is also you keep an open mind to knowledge. You mentioned there that

You were initially a denier of the art of living. You didn't think it was for you, but you kept that open mind, tried it and absorbed that knowledge. And I think that's a really important part of growth is being open to new learning and really taking those opportunities. And I think more than that, you also became a teacher as well. And I think that's the sign of someone who's a true learner is someone who ends up becoming a teacher because it tests your knowledge and how well you understand it. So you get that real deep knowledge.

The next one is, I think you're a forward thinker. You mentioned you were early to kind of the outsourcing game. You got on that trend early. You saw it as an opportunity and you embraced it. Then you saw AI as a threat. And while most people are dismissed it, you saw it as an opportunity and really took that. So I think being a forward thinker and staying ahead of the trends has been really important to your success.

The next one, I mean, we couldn't not touch on it is your, your mindfulness. And I think having the ability to sit with your thoughts and be okay in that space as well, because I know for most people it's a scary place to just sit and think, but you're so at peace in that space. it allows you to become a very deep thinker. A lot of the stuff we've discussed has been quite philosophical and you know, it's

how quickly you responded and how eloquently you responded, I think shows how deep of a thinker you are. And I think that's really important. As you said, it's becoming more important being a mindful person in today's day and age because we're so bombarded by information. And then the next one and final one is your impact driven. Whether it was wanting to start a business to create jobs and create that impact for your employees.

Dylan Pathirana (01:00:28.748)
or whether it's now wanting to share your knowledge and, you know, help all of these children through, through the charity work that you're doing. I think that impact drive, gives you an ulterior motive as well and keeps, keeps you pushing when, things get challenging. And, dear Raj, my experience, knowing you is you're very charismatic. I remember very first time I met you, wasn't really sure what to expect. As soon as you

open your mouth, start talking and explaining things. I realized, wow, this guy is the one that I want to spend a bit more time with, you know, because you're very authentic, you know, you're very, very special guy. And I think you develop that skills over the years. I mean, now we know a bit more, but over the years that you develop that, when you associate with anyone, you give that energy back to others, you know, and

That really doesn't matter whether you're in a personal relationship or a business relationship, that definitely helps you to connect with other person. again, one more thing to add, that giving back mentality. I remember at the university, you offer us doing these meditation classes and you did that every day, every morning that we used to come.

and you spend your time and teaching us. We had so many other things to do. We were so keen to talk to each other and get to know each other. And here you go, you're spending your energy and your time giving back to others. So, dear Raj, thank you so much for this time. think we totally, I mean, we spend many episodes talking to so many people. I think today we saw a different

different perspective to success. And thank you for sharing your insight and wisdom with us.

Dheerajj (01:02:32.647)
I'm so grateful that you got me here and I'm so happy that we had such a lovely conversation. I really loved it. And I congratulate you both on doing such an amazing work and spreading the knowledge that is much, much required. So once again, thank you. I'm very grateful that you thought of me and I'm so happy that we had a lovely conversation.

Dylan Pathirana (01:02:54.223)
Thank you so much. And for our listeners, if you've gotten something out of today's episode, if you could do us a massive favor and like follow and share this incredible wisdom with the people in your network. And you can see all of our inspirational content over on our website, the quest for success podcast.com. And with that, catch you guys in the next episode. Thanks for listening. you very much. So keep in touch and

Dheerajj (01:03:15.111)
Thank you so much, Jam. Thanks, Dylan. Bye-bye.